tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post1541609036117047769..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Cata Build 12479: The New Talent TreesGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-77002003746462720862010-07-22T00:10:20.326-05:002010-07-22T00:10:20.326-05:00Wanted to drop you a quick thanks. Just back into...Wanted to drop you a quick thanks. Just back into raiding after being casual after Sunwell and was good to see you still around, as I was still stuck in SF spam mode. I remember reading you back in the day on how to gear for Kara when you could count Moonkins on a server with one hand. We've come a long way baby....keep up the great work.Bromidrosishttp://Bladefistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-87622293172685014102010-07-21T02:04:52.202-05:002010-07-21T02:04:52.202-05:00Is it just me or, under the current setup, natures...Is it just me or, under the current setup, natures switftness is currently completely inaccessible to balance druids... And yet "requires moonkin form"... Thats GOTTA be a typo or something...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425955852609017577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-16786828302805545802010-07-18T08:28:50.807-05:002010-07-18T08:28:50.807-05:00I love your site. You write great stuff for druids...I love your site. You write great stuff for druids. But please, learn the difference between "then" and "than". You use them backwards. <br /><br />"Then" is used to sequence things in time... "I ate the cookie, then I drank the milk". <br /><br />"Than" is used to compare things.... "I like chocolate cookies more than I like peanut butter ones."<br /><br />You write a really popular site. It's got great content. Just my anal retentive $.02 to help step up the grammar game, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-161760858797827582010-07-16T20:25:42.932-05:002010-07-16T20:25:42.932-05:00Being like any normal person, I first checked my m...Being like any normal person, I first checked my main's talent tree choices. Then, baffled at the lack of choice and a little annoyed at being pigeon-holed, I decided to go wandering to see if my alts' trees looked any better.<br /><br />NONE of them do. There are very few choices. It's mostly "fill up your tree & then dump into the first tier of whichever tree looks better."<br /><br />I was a little excited for the trees when they were first announced--skeptical but optimistic. This is just... gross.Selerianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-52895857529078481702010-07-16T18:11:47.021-05:002010-07-16T18:11:47.021-05:00As far as the range talents, GC said today: "...As far as the range talents, GC said today: "Pure classes just have their spells always go to maximum range. We have to keep some checks and balances in place for healing classes to make sure the dps spec beats the healing spec when actually doing dps. Hit, big crits and range are some of the mechanics that let Elemental \ Balance \ Shadow trump the Restos and the healing priests."<br /><br />I can understand and accept that logic, but I really hope they later builds have some big changes in their for us. I understand your frustration about the talents that have nothing to do with dps. I'm gonna assume you're talking about the rogue combat tree. :P I was trying to make a build myself and I needed to get to the good stuff down in the tree and yet my choices were imp gouge, imp sprint or extra armor. None of those are that interesting either, beyond leveling or pvp I suppose.<br /><br />The "hurry up and wait" continues. I wish I had a beta key to keep me occupied. :PNeyunanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-34607614372766279802010-07-16T14:56:13.633-05:002010-07-16T14:56:13.633-05:00@Murmurs
"I'm all for utility, but I'...@Murmurs<br /><br />"I'm all for utility, but I'm a bloody DPS, I want to spec for DPS, I want to deal damage. If I wanted stupid healing tricks, or increased healing on myself, or extra dodge/parry, then I'd do something else."<br /><br />So, what you're saying is.. you don't really want to make any meaningful choices. You just want to do damage.<br /><br />It sounds like the best system for you would be to not have a talent system now.<br /><br />That's kind of what we have now; you either look up the "correct" talent spec and choose that, or you're viewed as a "newb." There is no choice today, merely the chore of having to go look up an elitist jerk thread every time our class gets a tweak.Duskstormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-13941527037585782682010-07-16T00:36:26.539-05:002010-07-16T00:36:26.539-05:00If a new player can't figure out 3 moves that ...If a new player can't figure out 3 moves that pretty sad. I enjoy not knowing exactly what to do when I start a new game, but eventually I learn. <br /><br />However having mail equivalent armor at level 10 would definitely help boomkin leveling in terms of damage taken.Artofficialnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-65987773379196407152010-07-15T11:42:00.328-05:002010-07-15T11:42:00.328-05:00Yeah I still think they just made these changes on...Yeah I still think they just made these changes on a whim after some meeting. Why would you go to the trouble of making changes to the talent trees and making them bloated to all of a sudden decide that you want a 31 deep talent tree. Why not decide that from the get go so they had a ton of time to get it right. This feels rushed. I just hope it does not suck.Faelarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05653339004157873822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-11168595990248194542010-07-15T10:41:48.391-05:002010-07-15T10:41:48.391-05:00"I understand that the tree is still in a ver..."I understand that the tree is still in a very early form, but I don't want my "interesting choices" to come down to which of these remaining talents sucks the least."<br /><br /><br />^this. I can't stress it enough. We already had to do that most of Wotlk. Brambles, Owlkin Frenzy (i had such hopes for that one). <br /><br />As far as the Moonkin form at 10, I can't think of a more iconic spell for some one leveling as balance. It could also be said as previously mentioned to scale with level or in rank. <br />@graylo<br />Have you seen any of the troll forms and/or is there a moonkin form yet for them?Aabrahmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48749132802536211452010-07-15T08:26:51.442-05:002010-07-15T08:26:51.442-05:00I, like Murmurs, am waiting to be impressed. So f...I, like Murmurs, am waiting to be impressed. So far they're not even close to impressing anyone. I understand that the tree is still in a very early form, but I don't want my "interesting choices" to come down to which of these remaining talents sucks the least.Fantasmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-35568562419811985412010-07-15T08:17:06.190-05:002010-07-15T08:17:06.190-05:00Yes, there is a lot of work to be done, but it'...Yes, there is a lot of work to be done, but it's still really quite terrifying for them to make changes this big to the talent trees this late in the development process along with all the other things they didn't have working right in the first place. The poor Blizzard staff is going to have a lot of sleepless nights...lissannahttp://www.restokin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-44558435375095446472010-07-14T21:24:50.809-05:002010-07-14T21:24:50.809-05:00I wager they still have a TON of work yet to do on...I wager they still have a TON of work yet to do on these talent trees for all the classes. <br /><br />I mean it seems like they just decided on a whim to change the huge bloated trees down to these smaller ones. Now they have to rush it in the couple months they have in beta before this stuff gets ready to go on live servers before the expansion comes out.Faelarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05653339004157873822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82858336478392883602010-07-14T20:25:46.071-05:002010-07-14T20:25:46.071-05:00Is it cynical to say that it feels like Blizzard h...Is it cynical to say that it feels like Blizzard has no clue what they really want to do with any talent tree right now? I mean, seriously, they're just in a complete state of mess right now, with junk all over the place that they swear up and down they're going to change....but when? How many things are they pushing aside just to get this one thing right?<br /><br />I understand talents are import and all that, but there's so much more that still needs to be done and we're still sitting at square one. Not only that, but they haven't actually done half the things they've said they're going to do and, really, they seem to apply their logic randomly.<br /><br />Frost still has Ice Shards which is nothing but plus % crit -- they said all of those talents were going, oh, wait, no, they changed their minds a bit later and just said that most of them were going, then all of them were going again. In fact, there's still quite a number of talents in multiple trees that do nothing but increase crit or damage by a flat %. <br /><br />There are still range increasing talents, there's still talents to increase base line buffs, and half the trees are going to be a balancing nightmare due to the gross inequality of DPS talents, or lack there of, in them.<br /><br />I understand they want for choice in utility or whatever they are attempting, but I mean, come on. Half of the talents are so damn useless it's like they threw in the talent just to have a talent there; not only that, but some specs spend more than half their talent points on talents that literally do nothing for their DPS, I mean nothing. I'm all for utility, but I'm a bloody DPS, I want to spec for DPS, I want to deal damage. If I wanted stupid healing tricks, or increased healing on myself, or extra dodge/parry, then I'd do something else. <br /><br />I'm waiting to be impressed by these changes.Murmursnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-53766369067324293102010-07-14T19:14:41.322-05:002010-07-14T19:14:41.322-05:00I'm curious as to what use you think Fungal Gr...I'm curious as to what use you think Fungal Growth might have as a PvE talent. Perhaps a replacement for Typhoons daze effect?<br /><br />http://www.wowtal.com/#k=1R12lSl.9mn.druid<br /><br />Is what I would perceive to be the standard given this nasty looking tree. A point from OkF could happily be moved to Genesis, after all they are more or less equal talents overall.Lespaulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-85005241591117453182010-07-14T19:07:55.814-05:002010-07-14T19:07:55.814-05:00Moonkin form at level 10... I'm not sure if I&...Moonkin form at level 10... I'm not sure if I'm okay with that either :-/ But then again, as long as they don't make it a cooldown based "trinket" like tree form, I don't mind where they put it.<br /><br />Thanks for your analysis, Graylo. I'm not in the Beta so I'll continue to watch yours and Lissanna's take on things, as well as your commenters.Angelyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16874823483699317334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-65216803893931161972010-07-14T18:29:09.722-05:002010-07-14T18:29:09.722-05:00And I am envious of you Lissanna. I am dying to ge...And I am envious of you Lissanna. I am dying to get into beta. I really want to test everything and give them a lot of input on balance. I have no interest in the zone designs or the new races or any of that junk. The more data we can give them and the more ideas we can give them for balance druids the better.Faelarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05653339004157873822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-73680416768246886482010-07-14T18:27:01.254-05:002010-07-14T18:27:01.254-05:00The reason I view the spell damage reduction as so...The reason I view the spell damage reduction as something I can pass on is barkskin. I have always been able to use it on the fly to reduce damage during times of stress. For PvE that was always enough for me.<br /><br />I would imagine we are losing some of our crit and haste buffs as they are going to try and force mastery on us. I am curious to see the direction they are taking us.Faelarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05653339004157873822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-70327797865084119442010-07-14T18:20:39.254-05:002010-07-14T18:20:39.254-05:00TBR is "to be redesigned".TBR is "to be redesigned".lissannahttp://b6ssb33tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-57598962915180996712010-07-14T16:30:58.144-05:002010-07-14T16:30:58.144-05:00I notice Natures Grace is tagged as [TBR] = To be ...I notice Natures Grace is tagged as [TBR] = To be removed..?<br /><br />-Odem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82031188438783046312010-07-14T14:19:33.104-05:002010-07-14T14:19:33.104-05:00Humm, I think I am in favour of the level 10 talen...Humm, I think I am in favour of the level 10 talent being Moonkin form. You are going to have to spend the next 60 levels as a Moonkin so the sooner you self identify as one the better. In addition, as I understad the blue posts, just because you get a talent does not mean you get it's full effect. Talents (like spells) may also level up. I can certainly see Moonkin form start as a +1 haste, then at say level 14 get +1 crit etc etc building to full effect at level 70 what ever.<br /><br />Now down to my grip.......AGAIN no real way to preserve damage on the move....AT ALL! Everything points to a shift to a PvP mentality at Blizzard. All fights are movement intensive, deep choices on talent trees are going away, talent trees are "simplified" for the convience of the casual players, gear welfare runs rampant still.... I could go on and on.<br /><br />Moonkins need to have less reliance on a swinging eclipse and more I can let loose my full spell power anytime over the next 15 seconds al a an Arcane mage and the Missle Barage Proc.<br /><br />Even at 50% crit and over 1000 haste I still waste more than half my spell power because of movement.<br /><br />Until we can fire on the move like Mages, Hunters, DK's, Warriors, Paladins, Rogues and to a smaller degree Locks (via their Pets) Moonkins are a dying class.Weetreenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-78757364330917109762010-07-14T13:57:31.704-05:002010-07-14T13:57:31.704-05:00@Jay
I understand your point completely. Percent ...@Jay<br /><br />I understand your point completely. Percent based buffs scale completely with a players relative power. Giving a level 10 a 5% crit buff isn't all that different then giving it to a level 30, 50, or 80. <br /><br />My point is that you can't give players everything at once, and if moonkin form came with both the 5% to crit and 5% haste then it may be a little to much to soon for a level 10. There should be a progression, otherwise why not give everything to the level 10 and let him just upgrade himself with gear?Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-67413587026254336122010-07-14T13:34:23.691-05:002010-07-14T13:34:23.691-05:00My point was more that, by virtue of being %-based...My point was more that, by virtue of being %-based, it's not in any way particularly strong to give it at low levels. It's no stronger (relatively) there than at high levels. Basically I don't understand your point here at all.<br /><br />I wouldn't worry about the tuning of talents like Perseverance just get. A lot of things have to be rebalanced for the new 31-point talent scheme.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722476612538640230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48145650033243745042010-07-14T12:44:35.816-05:002010-07-14T12:44:35.816-05:00@Pewpewkitty
First, I wouldn't take the talen...@Pewpewkitty<br /><br />First, I wouldn't take the talent calculator provided by MMO-Champion at face value. Many of the Tooltips are clearly incorrect. Perseverance went up to a 10% reduction in the last build. I wouldn't be surprised that the current version will as well once they get all the bugs out.<br /><br />Second, I would probably take a 2% DPS increase over a 2% damage redution as well, but as I told Villainus, that is unlikely to be an option. Don't under estimate the value of personal damage reduction. Nobody is as good or lucky as they think they are, and it will save your butt multiple times.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-21777561636659174552010-07-14T12:24:34.298-05:002010-07-14T12:24:34.298-05:00The problem with the damage reduction talent is th...The problem with the damage reduction talent is that it costs 1 talent point for 2% reduced spell damage. In a tree where talent points are far scarcer I would like to think that there are places that talents can be far better spent. As a raid healer primarily I would much rather have DPS spend points to increase their DPS by 2% thus making the fight shorter and my mana strain less.Pewpewkittynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-8555155793494901132010-07-14T12:14:16.238-05:002010-07-14T12:14:16.238-05:00@Villainus
"Why do you continue to insist th...@Villainus<br /><br />"Why do you continue to insist that reduced spell damage is "sure to be standard" in a spec?"<br /><br />I think you are selling the talent way short by calling it a PvP talent. In fact, I'm not a big PvPer, but it is probably more helpful in PvE then it is in PvP.<br /><br />I realize that not everyone will consider it standard, but I and most high progression moonkin I've talked to consider damage reduction to be very important. The reason is simple. If you're dead you can't DPS.<br /><br />Concider these points.<br /><br />1. Almost all damage a ranged player takes in a raid is spell damage. Therefore you are reducing your total damage taken by almost 6% to 10%. This can easily save your life when multiple things hit you quickly. <br /><br />In PvP on the other hand a lot of the damage you will take will likely come from melee which is unaffected by the talent.<br /><br />2. Mana is going to be an issue in Cata for healers. The less damage you take, the fewer heals you need, the less mana you cause healers to spend. I realize that this may not seem important to some people, but what is good for the team is good for you.<br /><br />If it was a choice between Perseverance and Awesome DPS talent #1 then I would probably choose the DPS talent, but I guarentee that won't be the case. When Cata goes live I bet you will see most of the recommended builds will recommend Perseverance as a standard talent in a raiding build.<br /><br />@Jay<br /><br />I don't think giving percent based stats at a low level to be overpowered, but giving to many of them could be. At this point we don't know what happened to Imp MF or the 5% Haste it provides. If it was included in the standard Moonkin Form I think giving both 5% crit and 5% haste at level 10 might be a little to much too soon.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.com