tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post1640215752802419667..comments2014-07-21T11:48:14.309-05:00Comments on Gray Matter: Celestial Focus, Haste, and ICC GearingGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-87249276070979837882010-08-04T04:49:46.940-05:002010-08-04T04:49:46.940-05:00I know this post is old, but I feel the need to sp...I know this post is old, but I feel the need to speak up in Graylo's defense.<br /><br />He is correct, at the soft crit cap, haste beats out crit by about .2-.3 dps per point in full raid buffs and 30% ICC buff. <br /><br />This is not enough of an increase to regem all your 264 gear with haste, but as I start replacing my gear with 277 gear, I gem spell/haste in yellow sockets while maintaining around 960 crit. I keep it over the crit cap, because you can't always be sure to get every buff.<br /><br />Again, like all SOFT caps, they are break points to keep in mind, not to stress over. If you go over it, don't change your gear and gems to get back down to it.<br /><br />The reality is, in heroic 25 man gear, you are going to be way over both soft caps, and keeping them balanced is a better solution.<br /><br />http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/72i58np7rpte996y/details/7/?s=2434&e=2650 is the link to my moonkin, if you want a comparisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-10027669519585383142010-06-14T18:22:33.870-05:002010-06-14T18:22:33.870-05:00Three things.
The marginal value of crit increa...Three things. <br /><br />The marginal value of crit increases slower then haste as spellpower only increases (graylos chart)<br /><br />The marginal value of crit decreases as Int increases since int gives crit also. <br /><br />The marginal value of haste increases as int increases. <br /><br />Thus as higher levels of gear with all their int and spellpower are gotten... at some point haste overtakes crit, end of story. You can argue we're not at that point yet but simulations and logs can settle that.Stekonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-32251340687420247172010-06-13T10:20:45.599-05:002010-06-13T10:20:45.599-05:00@Graylo:
I like your ferrari/jetta comparison. Ma...@Graylo:<br /><br />I like your ferrari/jetta comparison. Made me sincerely smile :)<br /><br />Lets say ferrari has low torque, but great top speed. Jetta has lower top speed but higher acceleration (torque). What would you pick up for a uphill road and what would you pick up for a straight highway?<br /><br />Besides those jokes, i respect your calculations and probably some more haste will benefit me when my +crit choices are over..<br /><br />But i wanted to ask you something else:<br /><br />Do you know how the +40% solar bonus damage scales with the various spell power procs we have?<br /><br />So far, every respectful moonkin in the world has the Ashen Verdict ring. Almost everyone has at least one BiS trinket (Phylacery or Dislodged or maybe both)<br /><br />On an average fight (lets' say 4 minutes) we have at least 3(or 6 for the lucky guys having both BiS) trinket procs, and let's say 3 Ring procs.<br /><br />Those procs are all pure Spellpower, and there is no haste or crit proc as far as i know.<br /><br />How do they interact during solar and lunar eclipse?<br /><br />Could this be a variable to be taken into consideration in the various spreadsheets?<br /><br />Thanks in advanceDentex - Dragonblightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-34205557301800164112010-06-13T09:37:31.575-05:002010-06-13T09:37:31.575-05:00@Graylo:
Here's my initial post with armory- ...@Graylo:<br /><br />Here's my initial post with armory- and spreadsheet-links: http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2010/06/celestial-focus-haste-and-icc-gearing.html?showComment=1276186134046#c6850394069605064783<br /><br /><i>However, I do know that not every fight has adds, and even on the fights that do not all of them are significant.</i><br /><br />Can't agree at all, see post above.<br /><br /><i>Don't overestimate the value of what you are seeing.</i><br /><br />With my initial post i only wanted to note, that it doesn't matter, if you prefer crit or haste as an ICC25hm raiding moonkin, because<br /><br />1. the difference is quite small<br />2. it depends on encounter, whether haste or crit would be a little bit more usefull.<br />3. you can't reach that high sp-levels with ICC25hm gear, where you can definitely say: haste>crit.<br /><br />regards Olli, EU/Zuluhed<br />YouTube-Chan:<br />http://www.youtube.com/user/ollidrood<br />WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/25472/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-36412753446952399012010-06-13T08:31:06.585-05:002010-06-13T08:31:06.585-05:00@Anon8
While I did not include 4T10 in the graph ...@Anon8<br /><br />While I did not include 4T10 in the graph I did run the numbers with it. It does improve the marginal value of Crit a little, but not as much as you obviously think. Not to mention that all the sims and spreadsheets would include the set bonus. Sorry, Haste > Crit even with 4T10.<br /><br />@Olli<br /><br />Tried looking you up on the armory but couldn't find you so I can't verify what you said. However, I do know that not every fight has adds, and even on the fights that do not all of them are significant. Don't overestimate the value of what you are seeing.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-933849308975959652010-06-12T14:00:57.112-05:002010-06-12T14:00:57.112-05:00"However, if you run a reasonable rotation th...<i>"However, if you run a reasonable rotation through a spreadsheet or a Sim you are likely to find that Haste > Crit for your gear level."</i><br /><br />Did that with wrathcalc and with 20 falling stars from starfall (and missing splash-dmg, which can hit critically too) it shows crit>haste with an ICC-hm euipped moonkin.<br /><br />regards, Olli EU/ZuluhedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-39054701386523368712010-06-12T12:20:41.076-05:002010-06-12T12:20:41.076-05:00Post is not including 4 piece tier 10. IMO with 4p...Post is not including 4 piece tier 10. IMO with 4pt10 Crit > HasteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-54516436149425826162010-06-11T08:01:06.511-05:002010-06-11T08:01:06.511-05:00@Dentex
"I have proven nothing, you are righ...@Dentex<br /><br /><i>"I have proven nothing, you are right. But i have seen that i can do much more damage with wrath with a high critical strike rating."</i><br /><br />That's like saying I can go faster if I put a V6 in my Jetta. True, but you can go even faster if you just get a Ferrari.<br /><br /><i>"That is true, but you did not add that the extra crit applies during solar, when you have a +40% bonus damage (which doubles each time you crit). And the extra haste that benefits starfire is useless on wrath in the same %"</i><br /><br />True, but that was not the point f the post. I wrote this post to show why Haste is still good, and why it has caught up with Crit rating when you've past both caps. I only made this comment because in every one of your comments you seem to ignore the negative aspects of crit, while focusing on them for Haste. Both stats scale in the 55%-65% range, and that is bad for druids in general, but one still better then the other.<br /><br /><i>"This is the main reason why i am posting here. You made a statement "Haste>Crit", you made a graph that applies only to starfire spell. That is obvious"</i><br /><br />I ran a SimulationCraft on you. It had Haste valued at 63% and crit valued at 55% per point for you. Haste is greater then Crit, especially for you given your encredibly large Crit Rating levels and very low Haste Rating levels. That is a fact.<br /><br /><i>"Can you pls explain how critical strike rating scales with wrath and starfall?"</i><br /><br />Crit scales with Wrath and Starfall in very similar ways. Wrath gets a slight edge because it's higher spell coeffiecent and lower average crit rating because of ImpIS, but that difference is very small. So the like in the Starfire graph is applicable to Wrath as well and likely very similar to a line that you would finde for Starfall. However, that is the wrong way to look at it. <br /><br />It's not that Crit scales better for Wrath and Starfall but Haste scales worse for those individual spells. Everyone knows it, but some people take that info and use it in an incorrect manner. they assuming that since Haste is not good for 50-60% of my rotation then Haste is not good. Wrong!<br /><br />If you're over the Crit cap, then Crit rating is going to be useless for about 40-50% of your rotation. Some would take this as a sign that crit is still better since Haste does not impact more of your rotation, but that ignores how the two stats scale with spell power.<br /><br />My post above shows that Haste Rating Scales with spell Power much more then Crit rating does. This is how Haste has closed the gap between the two stats. Haste scales so much better for STarfire then Crit does for Wrath and Starfall.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-74045669120441058512010-06-11T03:56:04.171-05:002010-06-11T03:56:04.171-05:00@Lespaul:
Thats why i posted a direct link to my ...@Lespaul:<br /><br />Thats why i posted a direct link to my spreadsheets (download them and try yourself) - no, i didn't use focus glyph. <br /><br />I only wanted to mention, that Graylo's haste>crit thesis is based on single-target view done with his own analyis or simcraft/wrathcalc-tools etc. But ICC isn't only to be single-targeting, quite the opposite, it's more multi-targeting, sometimes nearly bombing situations (lichking). And the missing splash-dmg in the spreadsheet-tools will do an additional pro-scaling for haste.<br /><br />Yes, haste scales better with sp, than crit does, but you have to be realistically. An ICC-25hm euipped moonkin couldn't reach that high sp levels, if you take 20 falling stars in account.<br /><br />regards Olli, EU/ZuluhedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-91140098018030307842010-06-11T02:15:47.864-05:002010-06-11T02:15:47.864-05:00"So what was the point and what do you think ..."So what was the point and what do you think you proved. Yes, for you you did more damage with Wrath then Starfire. Does that mean Crit > Haste? Does that prove you right?What you linked told us almost nothing."<br /><br />I have proven nothing, you are right. But i have seen that i can do much more damage with wrath with a high critical strike rating.<br /><br />"Having some of your Crit Rating rendered useless for 30% of the fight does diminish the marginal value of Crit Rating."<br /><br />That is true, but you did not add that the extra crit applies during solar, when you have a +40% bonus damage (which doubles each time you crit). And the extra haste that benefits starfire is useless on wrath in the same %<br /><br />"What I did here was find the marginal gain in DPS by adding 1 point of Haste Rating and Crit Rating to various levels of Spell Power for the spell Starfire"<br /><br />This is the main reason why i am posting here. You made a statement "Haste>Crit", you made a graph that applies only to starfire spell. That is obvious<br /><br />Can you pls explain how critical strike rating scales with wrath and starfall?Dentex - Dragonblightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-79035785493027524582010-06-10T22:56:22.243-05:002010-06-10T22:56:22.243-05:00@ Olli
Are you including glyph of focus in your Wr...@ Olli<br />Are you including glyph of focus in your WrathCalcs sheet? If so, this is probably not as valid a comparison as the general consensus on Glyphs doesn't include it.<br /><br />I feel I need to reiterate some of what I said above as the discussion still seems to be heading in the direction of haste v crit.<br />There should never be a point, (nor should there really ever have been), where you start deciding to 'stack' either crit OR haste. You should be trying to increase both simultaneously. The only time where you should even be contemplating whether one is greater than the other is when gemming, and that difference is going to be minute! Haste AND crit in every slot, except where you have to have hit. And you do have to have hit.<br />Linking parses proves nothing except how big your ego is.Lespaulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-28854135273561985732010-06-10T12:54:05.744-05:002010-06-10T12:54:05.744-05:00@Digram
I don't think you understand what the...@Digram<br /><br />I don't think you understand what the graph is saying. The graph shows how Haste and Crit scale with spell power. I used Starfire as the bases for the comparison because it gives the clearest picture since it is not limited by the GCD and is not an instant cast.<br /><br />This post is purely an explination on how haste has improved so much since patch 3.3.<br /><br />Yes, Starfall does improve the marginal value of Crit more then it does Haste because haste has little impact on the DPS of Starfall. Same can be said for Wrath, or Moonfire. However, if you run a reasonable rotation through a spreadsheet or a Sim you are likely to find that Haste > Crit for your gear level. This is because the Lunar Crit cap limits the value of Crit, and Haste scales with Spell Power for one of our primary spells so much better then it does with Crit rating.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-45167762783483395962010-06-10T12:21:24.632-05:002010-06-10T12:21:24.632-05:00@Graylo
I am still wondering if your graph incorp...@Graylo<br /><br />I am still wondering if your graph incorporates Starfall in any manner. Looking back over it, Starfall is never mentioned.<br /><br />Once again, I am not trying to be disrespectful in any manner and I truly appreciate the work you put in to explaining these numbers.<br /><br />- Dignam, Crushridge USDignamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27336363733550130842010-06-10T11:55:15.146-05:002010-06-10T11:55:15.146-05:00@Dentex
"I have linked the parse with detail...@Dentex<br /><br />"I have linked the parse with detailed dmg done(not dps or whatever), and i asked you to compare wrath vs starfire."<br /><br />So what was the point and what do you think you proved. Yes, for you you did more damage with Wrath then Starfire. Does that mean Crit > Haste? Does that prove you right?What you linked told us almost nothing.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-21817169583736650162010-06-10T11:17:10.122-05:002010-06-10T11:17:10.122-05:00Ah, i forgot to mention, that wrathcalc doesn'...Ah, i forgot to mention, that wrathcalc doesn't calculate with starfall splash dmg (that also scales with crit-rating). So in some special 'bombing' situations crit-rating should be even better.<br /><br />regards Olli, EU/ZuluhedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-68503940696050647832010-06-10T11:08:54.046-05:002010-06-10T11:08:54.046-05:00k, i see, i will be ignored without a prove, so he...k, i see, i will be ignored without a prove, so here are my spreadsheets based on WrathCalcs 100402.xls. I put in my stats (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zuluhed&cn=Ollidrood):<br /><br />http://www.silver-planet.de/files/templates/wc_Olli_10stars.xls<br /><br />After that i increased the amount of stars from starfall (formula in cooldowns->D10 ...*10). In a single-target situation that number would be correct.<br /><br />http://www.silver-planet.de/files/templates/wc_olli_20stars.xls<br /><br />Now i increased number of stars to 20 and as you can see in character sheet tab in cell D5 and D7, that critrating overhauls hasterating in scaling.<br /><br />http://www.silver-planet.de/files/templates/wc_Olli_17stars.xls<br /><br />I test a little bit and with 17 stars i see crit-rating = haste-rating.<br /><br />Now the question is, how often u can use all 20 stars of starfall in a boss-fight. And if u think a little bit of that situation, u will only find 3 bosses (rotface, festergut, blood-prince council), where u couldn't benefit from all stars (although u can push your dps at rotface and council, when your stars falls at 'ineffective' targets).<br /><br />regards Olli, EU/ZuluhedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-88725057317278189002010-06-10T10:29:12.929-05:002010-06-10T10:29:12.929-05:00I have linked the parse with detailed dmg done(not...I have linked the parse with detailed dmg done(not dps or whatever), and i asked you to compare wrath vs starfire.<br /><br />Since i dont do calculations, the only thing i can link is my spell dmg list on an average fight like DBS.<br /><br />Then someone else started the showoff, being also aggressive in some way.<br /><br />Btw /agree with SilveriaDentex - Dragonblightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-68764527895787419082010-06-10T10:18:20.413-05:002010-06-10T10:18:20.413-05:00@Duskstorm
SimulationCraft and WrathCalcs takes E...@Duskstorm<br /><br />SimulationCraft and WrathCalcs takes Eclipse into account, and you can set up Simulation Craft to consider movement like activity as well. When I was using the movement function I wasn't seeing a huge shift in results.<br /><br />@Maragon<br /><br />I wouldn't say SF is our primary nuke. I think Wrath and SF are fairly equal now. That said, Wrath does scale with Spell Power better then Wrath does. You can thank Starlight Wrath for that.<br /><br />@Dignam<br /><br />Since Eclipse procs off of Crits, people tend to over estimate the value of that relationship. Gaining or loosing a few percent of Crit doesn't dramatically shift your chance to proc Eclipse on average. At the same time people forget that haste has an impact on how fast you proc eclipse as well. So, doing theory on "how crit can affect fluidity of Eclipse transitions" isn't as important as you may think.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-71118917334925892372010-06-10T10:06:20.062-05:002010-06-10T10:06:20.062-05:00Wow, I go away for one day and the comments on my ...Wow, I go away for one day and the comments on my blog explode.<br /><br />Lets all take a step back and realize what I say in my blog and not what you guys think I was saying.<br /><br />There seems to be a common belief around the interwebz that "haste sucks for moonkin." That is not completely true. Prior to 400 points Haste rating is god. After 400 is clearly inferior to Crit until about 950-1050 crit rating, but it still isn't horrible. After the Lunar Crit Cap haste is better then Crit again on a point for point bases but the reasoning is complicated.<br /><br />Part of the reason is that the Lunar Crit cap pulls the Value of Crit down, but that is only part of the reason. The other par is that haste scales with Spell Power much better then Crit does, and that is what my graph shows. This is how Haste as caught up to Crit in ICC. The LCC deminishes the value of Crit, but the extra 500 SP we pick up by going from ToC to ICC boosts Haste a lot More then it does Crit. <br /><br />You can argue against that all you want with your feelings, but the math proves it. Until you can provide math to say otherwise, your arguement doesn't have much of a leg to stand on.<br /><br />All that said, I have NEVER said "Crit sucks." In truth we are arguing about less then 1% DPS here. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less then 0.5% DPS. The marginal values of Haste and Crit are very similar, but haste is better. Are you going to do horrible DPS if you go with crit instead? No! Are you going to top the DPS charts if you use Haste? Not necessarily! Crit's not optimal but it is effective.<br /><br />That said, it's absolutly laughable that you guys are throwing around WoL parces to prove your points. <br /><br />Crit vs Haste is the only thing that matters am I right? <br /><br />The fact of the matter is that there are hundreds of variables that go into determining how well any individual player does on one specific fight. So to pull out a parse and say I think X and I did better then you there for X is correct is ludacrous. Those results could be different because of Gear, RNG, fight strat, technical issues, or just overall skill of the player to name a few reasons.<br /><br />The simulators and spreadsheets are the only things we have to come close to accurately testing these theorys. A one off parse says almost nothing.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-26541536033023899832010-06-10T07:56:05.768-05:002010-06-10T07:56:05.768-05:00@Maragon:
"Prove it - or it's heresay, w...@Maragon:<br /><br />"Prove it - or it's heresay, which is as worthless as your other opinions on haste and critical strike values."<br /><br />Your damage:<br />Deathbringer Saurfang 2664188 93.6 %<br />Blood Beast 1<br />82524 6.4 %<br /><br />My damage:<br />Deathbringer Saurfang 2148626 77.2 %<br />Blood Beast 634216 22.8 %<br /><br />You have been full time on boss, With the obvious benefits. <br /><br />And my opinion is not so worthless if this thread is becoming someway interesting.Dentex - Dragonblightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-32323081087525753262010-06-10T03:37:41.113-05:002010-06-10T03:37:41.113-05:00Did Rawr, Wrathcalc and all the theory-crafter thi...Did Rawr, Wrathcalc and all the theory-crafter think of starfall-buff in patch 3.3.3.? I hope you consider, that starfall scales with crit-rating but not with haste-rating. And for me, starfall does 15%+ of my overall dmg.<br /><br />Graylo, your graph would be right for pre 3.3.3. situation, but now crit- and haste-rating should be almost equal.<br /><br />mfg Olli, EU/ZuluhedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-90952259723635988572010-06-10T01:35:20.237-05:002010-06-10T01:35:20.237-05:00I respect Graylo and his math and I'd just lik...I respect Graylo and his math and I'd just like to say thank you for taking the time to do all that and for making it available to us.<br /><br />We have been blessed with options here and everyone fails to see this. You can be a haste Moonkin, a Crit Moonkin or a Balanced Moonkin past the soft caps and do good DPS either way you go. This is what cataclysm will be about. Choosing your path. So you have the option to do that now with little difference in your DPS. <br /><br />MoonlytAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-74193662419745567672010-06-10T00:32:16.399-05:002010-06-10T00:32:16.399-05:00@Lespaul,
Yes, this 'debate' all ends ent...@Lespaul,<br /><br />Yes, this 'debate' all ends entirely with whatever you find preferential. The more interesting debate is how to actually interpret data you read from theorycrafters and applying it to actual fights where you don't just stand there and nuke away the entire time with a fully debuffed target.<br /><br />To me, that is more important than the solid math since Boomkins and 98% of fights are not as two dimensional as the math makes them out to be.<br /><br />- Dignam, Crushridge USDignamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82780362597746914572010-06-09T21:28:14.465-05:002010-06-09T21:28:14.465-05:00The case being argued here is flawed from both per...The case being argued here is flawed from both perspectives. The only time when you should ever be considering whether to stack crit or haste over one another is when gemming. How many yellow sockets do you have on your gear where the socket bonus is worth taking? (im assuming all yellow sockets are worth gemming reckless/potent except in situations where you need 2 yellow gems to get the bonus...) 4? 6? possibly 8 at a pinch? So you're talking about a difference of upto 80 haste or crit here. 2.6% haste or 1.9% crit. In the grand scheme of things, a trivial amount.<br /><br />When gearing, you should never be considering "do I want that piece cos it has more haste or do I want that piece cos it has more crit?" Instead, all you should be thinking is "where can I put my hit so that I can maximise the amount of crit AND haste on my gear. Spirit is never really an option unless there is no drop with haste+crit, both are worth about 1.3 times the value of spirit. (you can argue wrist slot all you like, hit wrists are still currently the best except when only capping hit to heroic presence, and come 3.3.5 there will be a haste/crit alternative that drops from the Ruby Sanctum.)<br />So how many alternatives with haste+crit are there in each slot and at each ilvl? Most of the time only one, occasionally 2 - one leather one cloth with identical stats - and very rarely 2, one 10 man heroic mode item and one normal 25 man item, one with more crit, and one with more haste, so at heroic level, generally there is only ever one choice in every slot anyway. When you are faced with a choice? Never go for 'the one that has more crit' or 'the one that has more haste', but always the one that has the greatest accumulation of the two and the most spellpower. (although they should have the same sp at the same ilvl)<br />The only real dilemma should be (as I said above) where to put your hit in order to maximise both crit and haste. <br /><br />If you read Graylos post properly, you should have noticed that he specifically states that haste scales better with spellpower, not 'haste is better than crit'. If you took the graph he presented and changed it to Wrath casts instead of Starfire, you would see the lines reversed (with haste levelling off much earlier) but with the top value of crit being lower than that of haste on the SF graph due to Wraths lower coefficient. This would show overall that haste scales marginally better with SF than crit does with Wrath and as such is the reason why you're better off gemming reckless ametrines than potent ones. <br />Overall tho its such a minor gain that you would probably see it swallowed up by RNG most of the time.<br /><br />TL;DR<br />There is barely ever a choice to make when gearing. Haste+crit in every slot, except where you want to put hit. Spirit is acceptable whilst waiting for a haste+crit upgrade, but won't be BiS. Gem reckless over potent, although the difference could be considered preferential.Lespaulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-35833397059227010322010-06-09T19:12:03.169-05:002010-06-09T19:12:03.169-05:00Also, forgot to mention this regarding the crit vs...Also, forgot to mention this regarding the crit vs haste debate.<br /><br />When it comes to Lunar Eclipse 'clairvoyance', there is a level of haste where watching your natures grace and predicting (I normally predict at 1-2 simultaneous refreshes) where you end up finishing your Starfire before you actually gain the Eclipse buff, screwing you over pretty hard. Generally, being excellent at predicting the transition has always been one thing that separated good Moonkin from horrible ones, and now its suddenly become incredibly hard to do.<br /><br />- Dignam, Crushridge USDignamnoreply@blogger.com