tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post1988308071855163845..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Mailbag: Haste BreakpointsGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-16775158876984300442011-02-28T15:09:06.887-06:002011-02-28T15:09:06.887-06:00Per Calculated from EJ on his blog at http://www.i...Per Calculated from EJ on his blog at http://www.intent-kt.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2288 comes this (quote):<br /><b>***EDIT: There is some in game feedback that the 13th tick of dots happens at 1930 haste with NG. This doesn't mesh with what we would expect the calculations to be based on haste formulas but apparently there is some in-game rounding going on. This rounding may change some other valuations above as well but 1930 is the significant haste mark (for T11 gear) that I'd make sure and stay above.</b>mushunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-81657765830368009362011-02-27T06:46:58.337-06:002011-02-27T06:46:58.337-06:00Breakpoints, as Graylo explained, are important fr...Breakpoints, as Graylo explained, are important from the point of view of DpET, or DpCT (damage per cast time) if you prefer. As far as is possible, DoTs should always be cast within an eclipse, and clipped as little as possible. If you refresh a DoT outside of eclipse, and then clip it at the beginning of the next eclipse, the damage resulting from that cast is reduced, and it would probably have been more efficient to cast a nuke instead. Hitting a breakpoint increases the DpET of DoTs while keeping the dps more or less equal. Haste between breakpoints increases their dps by reducing the duration over which the damage is applied.Lespaulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-83605143439898604762011-02-24T11:17:59.562-06:002011-02-24T11:17:59.562-06:00When I read it the first time, I was confused too ...When I read it the first time, I was confused too in regard to "extended" duration. As I understand it now, it is always shorter or equal to "unhasted" base length.<br /><br />I have another topic..perhaps a bit away but nevertheless important :)<br /><br />Before Cata there was always some interaction between crit and haste.<br />and it was advisable not to favor one too much above the other.<br />Is this completely gone now?<br />Do haste breakpoints cause crit "effectiveness" breakpoints?<br />Is there a minimum crit breakpoint?<br /><br />I have a really bad feeling because my haste already reached 2100 and my crit is only 320 rating points (taken from battlenet). Can you perhaps tell here or in a future blog comment your PoV on this.<br />Many thx in advance!Moonwhispernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27257200705916544592011-02-24T10:23:08.415-06:002011-02-24T10:23:08.415-06:00i'll never believe that the mirror (heroic or ...i'll never believe that the mirror (heroic or not) is that good, except graylo tells me so. ^^ ... and explains it to me. :)Raysahttp://ambitious-guild.eunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82031234877260044142011-02-23T20:11:13.708-06:002011-02-23T20:11:13.708-06:00Isn't the main reason breakpoints dont matter ...Isn't the main reason breakpoints dont matter to us is bc we dont refresh our dots when they fall off?? Only at the start of eclipse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-55910240491045558332011-02-23T15:32:23.976-06:002011-02-23T15:32:23.976-06:00Regarding trinket valuations, there's this fro...Regarding trinket valuations, there's this from SimulationCraft :<br />http://simulationcraft.org/406-6/Druid_Balance_Trinkets_T11_359.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-101008616346300952011-02-23T14:33:33.442-06:002011-02-23T14:33:33.442-06:00Thanks a lot for this post Graylo, but I think you...Thanks a lot for this post Graylo, but I think you should prob just change the name to "I told you haste was our best stat after hit cap and spell power Mutha Effa!!!"<br /><br />It is interesting to have the stats on where we get our extra ticks from the dots, but over all haste is still greater than crit and mastery. I know you don't have a lot of freetime but I would like to see a rework on our gear esp things like trinkets. I know your numbers are pretty close but you said yourself that the numbers on the trinkets prob arent right. (If you are taking "requests" that is)<br /><br />In any case YOU DA MAN!Volunsteer - Shadowmoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-29216384081058705192011-02-22T16:04:16.443-06:002011-02-22T16:04:16.443-06:00@Cryj/Farstriders
Think about it this way.
Haste...@Cryj/Farstriders<br /><br />Think about it this way.<br /><br />Haste reduces the amount of time between DoT ticks. With out any haste your DoT will tick every two seconds for a total of 18 seconds.<br /><br />If you add Moonkin Aura into the mix you now have 5% haste and your DoTs will tick ever 1.90 seconds (2/1.05 = 1.90) for a total DoT duration of 17.1 seconds (9*1.90 = 17.1).<br /><br />So, as you approach a breakpoint the duration of your DoT gets shorter and shorter. Moonkin DoTs will reach a breakpoint around 6% haste, so at 6% haste the duration of a single tick is 1.89 seconds (2/1.06 = 1.89) for a total duration of 18.9 seconds (10*1.89 = 18.9).<br /><br />This process repeats it self for all levels of haste. The more haste you gain the shorter your dot duration will be until you reach a break point at which time it will shoot back up, but never more then the duration of one dot tick. Because of that the duration of our moonkin dots will always fall between 17 and 19 seconds no matter how much haste you have, but the number of ticks you have in that dot will always be increasing as you increase your haste.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-52686424054956688462011-02-22T15:03:27.320-06:002011-02-22T15:03:27.320-06:00Cynwise did a good job of explaining the concept h...Cynwise did a good job of explaining the concept here: <br /><br />http://cynwise.wordpress.com/2010/10/29/how-warlock-dots-work-in-cataclysm/<br /><br />Thats for warlocks but its the same for moonkin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-83338040271461006442011-02-22T14:49:44.755-06:002011-02-22T14:49:44.755-06:00The total spell duration changes with haste. I do...The total spell duration changes with haste. I dont remember what the base duration is, but say with some value of haste you get off your last tick at 18 seconds. You add a little more haste, and now the last tick is 17.9 secs. Even though the base spell duration is longer, you won't be getting another tick. So the effective spell duration is shorter. When you add enough haste to reach your next breakpoint, the duration jumps back to the base duration.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48933940609736403062011-02-22T13:48:26.299-06:002011-02-22T13:48:26.299-06:00Yeah, I was confused by that as well. I thought h...Yeah, I was confused by that as well. I thought haste decreased the time between dot ticks, and no longer messed with the length of time the dot lasted. The breakpoints are the points at which the ticks have been sped up enough for another to fit in the duration. True?steelbendernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-90817973380001565032011-02-22T12:16:16.162-06:002011-02-22T12:16:16.162-06:00Interesting, and I followed most of it, but I got ...Interesting, and I followed most of it, but I got a bit confused with the way breakpoints affect the total duration of the spell.<br /><br />Specifically, you'd mentioned that our DoTs will always be between 17 and 19 seconds, regardless of haste levels. But, if the breakpoints add a tick (1.5seconds) to the duration of the spell, wouldn't that push the total length out to much greater than 19 seconds? I think that's the argument that's being used for why we'd be casting/refreshing DoTs less and nukes more...but if the spell duration is capped at 19 seconds, we're talking 1-2 wraths or a starfire.<br /><br />And if haste interacts with DoTs to speed up the ticks, and at breakpoints the number of ticks is increased(increasing total damage) so that the DoT will still have about the same duration...doesn't that mean an automatic DPS increase on the DoT (higher damage over approximately the same period of time?)<br /><br />Mostly I'm just trying to make sure I understand the mechanic - I get that the takehome message is int>hit to cap>haste>>other.Cryj/Farstridersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-45041514392350729572011-02-22T08:55:59.009-06:002011-02-22T08:55:59.009-06:00@Ohken
"When you do refresh a dot, the break...@Ohken<br /><br />"When you do refresh a dot, the breakpoints don't just matter less. They don't matter."<br /><br />Sorry, but that's not correct. Passing a breakpoint extends the duration of your DoT by 1.5~ seconds give or take depending on you haste level (at out low levels of haste it's likely higher).<br /><br />This means you cast your DoTs less to maintain 100% up time. If you are casting DoTs less then you are casting Nukes more, which is a DPS increase.<br /><br />Passing a Haste Breakpoint should be a DPS increase, because you dont' have to cast your DoTs as much, but I don't think the gain is huge and shouldn't prevent you from adding Haste after you pass a breakpoint.<br /><br />As I said, in my post, I would rather be a little above a breakpoint then a little below one, because there are some DPS advantages, but I wouldn't hold my haste levels at a breakpoint when the alternative is Crit or Mastery.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-57737263516749294362011-02-22T08:43:32.919-06:002011-02-22T08:43:32.919-06:00When you do refresh a dot, the breakpoints don'...When you do refresh a dot, the breakpoints don't just matter less. They don't matter. Due to a separate Cataclysm change, so long as you refresh a dot between its last two ticks, the dot will keep on ticking with exactly the same delay between each tick.<br /><br />When you don't refresh a dot, I realize from your post that moonkin have it better than trees. For moonkin, the breakpoints for both dots are apparently the same. For trees, the breakpoints are at all different levels of haste. As a result, whenever you add haste to go from one breakpoint to the next, all that haste is completely wasted except for the one spell that went past a breakpoint. This diminishes the value of haste dramatically.<br /><br />As such, haste seems mainly valuable to trees due to the intangible benefits of having a faster reaction time when something surprising happens.Ohkenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17335926195392937695noreply@blogger.com