tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post2101059020046349002..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: The Great 4.2 NerfGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-29837392321258854302011-06-05T03:22:27.847-05:002011-06-05T03:22:27.847-05:00Hi again, thats your russian raiding moonkin, Avl....Hi again, thats your russian raiding moonkin, Avl.<br /><br />Ive send you 3 additional questions for the interview. Still hope to get some photos before we post it :)<br /><br />And yes, if your interested, you can also post an english version or some part of it.<br /><br />Cheers, <br />AvlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-63468542465487400372011-05-30T14:52:34.041-05:002011-05-30T14:52:34.041-05:00My apologies. I am Anon2.
What I meant by the fr...My apologies. I am Anon2.<br /><br />What I meant by the fragments being available in both a 10man and 25man format is that people can go back and continue to farm for their final fragments while the guild moves on to T13.<br /><br />Chances are by then most guilds will have alt runs doing T12 for some easier gearing up and if someone is only missing 1-3 pieces, they might be more inclined to suffer through more T12 runs. Also, if someone is that close to being done, the guild as a whole would be more inclined to go back and do 10man hardmodes if it means a significant improvement in a core member's output.<br /><br />If you look back at Val'anyr, very few guilds went back and ran Uld25 to help their healers finish off their legendaries. If they got a guild run together, it was because they needed 1 and YS.<br /><br />People who got theirs made after Ulduar was current content did so by pugging drake runs and reserving fragments.<br /><br />Even today, I see a few people doing this. LoD runs are more popular on my server, but the principal still stands.<br /><br />I'm not interested in the staff. At least not until the first 6+ have been made. It's not that I'm low on the priority list (could be), but that I just have no interest in it. The expectation placed on people who have legendaries in the content for which they are current is very high. I'll settle for anything else.<br /><br />-Anon2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-9840971982334217332011-05-30T05:54:43.148-05:002011-05-30T05:54:43.148-05:00I think the game has become more and more deamandi...I think the game has become more and more deamanding in a matter of time. <br /><br />Raiders might have not percieved it but people who were casual, very casual raiders did. Guildies who had time geared up quickly, those who didn't just had a hard time. <br /><br />I used to meet a lot of different people in wow; nowadays population has changed a lot. A lot of casual players who enjoyed the game some expansions ago have now stopped playing: reaching anything without or with little raiding is very very hard and I believe Blizzard has sensed that (Many small guilds desappeared on my server). I personally switched to pvp. It requires less organization for playing. It is not my cup of tea but better than quitting. <br /><br />I think this is an operation to "try" to avoid people abandoning the game. Well, this is my opinion, ofc... I doubt it will solve the problem, though, because the mechanic of the game changed ihmo. The target of the game changed (target = players). The game has become harder: Rep with the guild, Pugs hard to be managed and other aspects prove it... all created with the same purpose.<br /><br />~LuAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-33130086236869302112011-05-29T17:22:33.623-05:002011-05-29T17:22:33.623-05:00Well said, Gray Matter. I really enjoyed reading ...Well said, Gray Matter. I really enjoyed reading this entire post. I completely agree.Linnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-70359267835402902792011-05-28T02:11:04.106-05:002011-05-28T02:11:04.106-05:00If you don't like the nerf because you prefer ...If you don't like the nerf because you prefer a challenge, solution:<br /><br />Remove a piece or two of gear. Seriously.<br /><br />One guild completed ICC in WotLK blues. I'm guessing they enjoyed that challenge quite a bit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-58987260851187721352011-05-27T10:27:49.343-05:002011-05-27T10:27:49.343-05:00@Lomein
I am a big fan of Gevlon's Undergeare...@Lomein<br /><br />I am a big fan of Gevlon's Undergeared project. It showed that skill can overcome gear, and proved a lot of dummy wrong by showing them that gear wasn't necessarily their problem.<br /><br />That said, lets not over value the significance of the undergeared project. First, Gevlon as doing 10man normal raids. They didn't do a single hard mode if I remember correctly and 10man Ulduar was tuned to the same level as 25man Naxx. Players were expected to jump from 5man heroics to 25man naxx so going to 10man Ulduar wasn't that great of a jump.<br /><br />From there, I don't remember them doing any of the ToC fights, but even if they did Normal mode ToC was very simple. They did kill several ICC bosses but they did so with high stacks of the zone buff.<br /><br />In short, Undergeared got significant help from nerfs as well.<br /><br />@BC<br /><br />I want to single out one comment you made.<br /><br /><i>"Having a title before anyone else doesn't make you special. It doesn't land you a better job. It doesn't get you a more beautiful wife or husband.. and it certainly doesn't make you live longer."</i><br /><br />If this is true, why do anything? You could say the same thing about having the nices garden in the neighborhood or winning a recreational sports league. There are a lot of things that we do that don't lead to direct and easy to see benefits, but that doesn't mean we should be recognized for our accomplishments. <br /><br />That said your completely wrong about the impact that WoW can have on your outside life. I've known a couple of people who've gotten jobs because of the guilds they are in and the progression they achieved. There are also countless examples of married couples who have met in WoW, and those are only the direct benefits.<br /><br />The skills that raid leaders learn leading raid can transfer directly leadership roles in the working world. The raiders in high progression guilds also learn valuable skills like self analysis, and team work.<br /><br />Having high proggession isn't meaningless and shouldn't be discounted out of had like you did.<br /><br />@Anon2<br /><br />As you implied I do think it is to early to tell how prevelent the staff will be. To much is unknown about it's strenght, the drop rates of the necessary items and the difficulty of content needed to clear to obtain them.<br /><br />That said, I don't think the fact that the fragments will drop in both 10man and 25 man will have a huge impact. The 10mans aren't a cakewalk like they were in WotLK. My guess is that the fragments will have a lower drop rate 10mans then in 25mans, and that the fragmetns will have a higher drop rate in heroic modes. <br /><br />I think the 10man format will help people complete their legendary who started on it in the 25man format, but I don't think it will help all that many casuals complete theirs.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-39304674499926674412011-05-27T09:08:18.508-05:002011-05-27T09:08:18.508-05:00Since everyone else has beaten the "nerf"...Since everyone else has beaten the "nerf" aspect to death, I'll just comment on the legendary side of things.<br /><br />Val'anyr had a few things going for it's rarity:<br />1) The time frame where Ulduar was "current" was brief.<br />2) The pieces only dropped in 25 man.<br />3) YS was still a challenge for people.<br />4) 30 fragments required.<br />5) Drop rates varied wildly for some guilds. One of the guilds I was in had 4! before we moved into ToC. My guild prior to that one only last week finally finished their first. It wasn't lack of ability. It was just nothing ever dropped.<br /><br />Take a look at Shadowmourne.<br />1) It was 25man only for the fragments.<br />2) The time frame where it was current content was longer than anything we've seen in recent memory.<br />3) Drop rates seemed to be better overall than those in Ulduar.<br />4) Only 25 fragments required.<br /><br />We even had tanks with the axe. Our recruits were given fragments too.<br /><br />The new legendary is unique due to the following:<br />Fragments can drop in both 10 and 25. Guilds aren't forced to have to run 25man to finish off one more person's staff even when Firelands isn't current content.<br /><br />If the staff is BiS for T13, you can rest assured that guilds will go back and continue to run Firelands. Even if it means doing it on normal and blowing through nerfed content. If someone really wants to finish off their staff, they'll go with the alt run and get their fragments.<br /><br />It may be too early to judge, but this might become the next Shadowmourne and even healers will be making one for the hell of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-68342345980395396742011-05-27T08:49:03.576-05:002011-05-27T08:49:03.576-05:00Good post Graylo.
I agree with everything except ...Good post Graylo.<br /><br />I agree with everything except the bit about taking away the titles. "Hard cores" that QQ about how it cheapens what they accomplished have never been the guy watching a parade of proto drakes march around Dalaran and thinking to themselves, "Yeah, I'll never see one of those in my inventory anytime soon."<br /><br />Hard cores will always have the title first. They will always have the gear first, and they are the only ones who will fully clear the content on hard mode. Why are you getting all upset when the casual player buys your <b>used</b> Honda with 300k+ miles on it for the <b>same price</b> that you paid for it 6 years ago when it was new? You hardly drive it anymore, and it has been sitting in your garage for months. Everyone pays the same monthly fee, and everyone should get a chance to kill bosses like Cho'gall, Nefarian, and Al'akir.Jornkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01716873122120871847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-32883372777841989242011-05-27T00:34:10.356-05:002011-05-27T00:34:10.356-05:00Lomein... I know it seems like undergeared was som...Lomein... I know it seems like undergeared was some amazing feat... but if you look at it contextually it wasn't. They ran it with heroic gear that was ilvl 200. What gear was nax 10 man? ilvl 200. All they did was do the content at the gear level ulduar was tuned for in the first place. Not to mention Ulduar was nerfed several times after its release and before ToC came out. <br /><br />Now.. as far as the current nerf goes... I agree with Graylo but for slightly different reasons. This nerf won't come about until patch 4.2 comes out and at that point tier 11 gear will be in the past. Like it or not firelands will be the only progression content worth mentioning and tier 11 will be relegated to farming gear for alts. Coupled with tier 11 emblems being able to be purchased with heroism points there there is no real point in keeping the difficulty the way it is. <br /><br />I'm sorry if your guild hasn't cleared all the bosses yet, heck I still have alakir and nef to go with my guild but I know we'll have them down before firelands is released. <br /><br />The bottom line... nerfing old content will never bother me, if this nerf went live now, then yes I would be seriously pissed. But since we'll have firelands to work on... its not a big deal.Artorinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-3455975088942432552011-05-26T15:59:36.512-05:002011-05-26T15:59:36.512-05:00@Siobhann
You can be serious about raiding and ra...@Siobhann<br /><br />You can be serious about raiding and raid one day a week. Don't imply that hardcore WoW players are lifers who don't do anything but sit in front of a computer all day and night.Myraxanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-49308717010991473042011-05-26T11:25:06.513-05:002011-05-26T11:25:06.513-05:00I'm bemused by a lot of the reactions as well....I'm bemused by a lot of the reactions as well. I mean, I care, because I'm RL in a guild who are 9/12 at the moment - so I think in with a chance of making it before the nerf, but by no means guaranteed. I'll be pretty disappointed if we don't make it, but I'm pretty sure the number of people who'll benefit from the nerfs vastly outnumber the people in my position (and hey, it'll be an incentive for us to up our game a bit for Firelands).Sebastianhttp://wildeabandon@dreamwidth.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-7583864635802171052011-05-26T07:29:26.736-05:002011-05-26T07:29:26.736-05:00What I'm interested in seeing is whether there...What I'm interested in seeing is whether there's a rush to do the nerfed raids. I have a suspicion the uptake on them will be a lot less than Blizzard will have been hoping.<br /><br />The reason being the nerfed raids are too obviously easier content, so the ego satisfaction of clearing it is greatly diminished. The game depends on maintaining the illusion for each player that they are better than they actually are, and fine-grained sliding difficulty defeats that illusion, since it tells you just where you stand on the pecking order.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-29892900790855880692011-05-25T20:09:38.889-05:002011-05-25T20:09:38.889-05:00Blizzard is basically taking away content we paid ...<i>Blizzard is basically taking away content we paid for; well-tuned and challenging fights.</i><br /><br />Oh, please.<br /><br />You did not "pay for" raiding content that was meant to be hard and challenging for all time, with forever exclusive content. You paid for what everyone pays for, which is episodic content designed around planned obsolescence. If you have not downed Nef by the time 4.2 hits, you are not in a progressive raiding guild anymore than a guild just now doing Kara can be considered a progressive raiding guild. You might not care about the PvE race, but that is irrelevant to the fact that 6+ months is way more time than you should expect for content to remain arbitrarily difficult for a vanishingly small portion of the playerbase that wants that content, but has not downed it yet. Assuming a fairly ridiculous 30 players per guild, less than 25% of NA/EU/TW/KR population have killed a single raid boss in Cataclysm thus far, at it's current difficulty. If a 20% nerf moves the needle to 26%, that is orders of magnitude more content for more people that pay the exact same fee as you.<br /><br />Blizzard did not take anything away from you. YOU took challenging content away from yourselves by dragging your feet/not being good enough/having unrealistic expectations.<br /><br />Re: the rest<br /><br />T11 is being nerfed because it was released at a level that was too high to begin with for it being the only tier. As the blues have mentioned, there was no entry-level raid this tier, unlike expansions past. Was Ulduar nerfed this harshly? Not in a blanket sort of way, but that was because Naxx came "pre-nerfed" with Wrath's release and then ToC's "pre-nerfed" status invalidated Ulduar completely.<br /><br />The price you pay to have bosses like Magmaw be on Putricide levels of difficulty right off the bat is a severe nerf later to make the content puggable. It cost Blizzard 600k accounts to see this, but see it they do.Azurielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581263347888757710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-52623564358979904902011-05-25T19:42:35.026-05:002011-05-25T19:42:35.026-05:00I think they should have just left heroic and hit ...I think they should have just left heroic and hit normal with the % zone buffs like iccLePeRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362202301242838749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-57832072933322863112011-05-25T19:38:35.711-05:002011-05-25T19:38:35.711-05:00Here's the thing though, the hardcores don'...Here's the thing though, the hardcores don't care. The people that do care the mediocre ones that struggle to get past 6-7/12 even with a mixture of 359/353 gear. And I've yet to hear a valid reason as to why they're not going to be banging their heads against Firelands when it's out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-89297848393779315932011-05-25T16:57:20.546-05:002011-05-25T16:57:20.546-05:00The way I see it is the people who spent weeks and...The way I see it is the people who spent weeks and weeks learning an encounter to become one of the first guilds to clear a boss might get angry at the 4.1 nerfs just because they see themselves as spending an insane amount of time doing it when it was hard. <br /><br />Then I see the casuals laughing at this change and laughing at all those hardcore raiders for spending crazy amounts of time when the casuals got to do more real life stuff.<br /><br />You know.. if you actually hung out in real life with everyone on your server (which no one does).. then I can see why the hardcore people would be mad. But you will never see these people. Having a title before anyone else doesn't make you special. It doesn't land you a better job. It doesn't get you a more beautiful wife or husband.. and it certainly doesn't make you live longer. <br /><br />So the hardcores should just keep doing their thing because they will most likely be the first ones to clear Firelands and the casuals will do their thing and play catch up. <br /><br />And in five years, this game will cease to exist and no one will care who did what first.BCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27655122952864981812011-05-25T16:39:23.042-05:002011-05-25T16:39:23.042-05:00But think about it. If Blizzard had done this in W...But think about it. If Blizzard had done this in WotLK then doing something like The Undergeared would have been impossible, since Ulduar would have been nerfed and their achievement would have been cheapened. All the previous expac's raids were only nerfed with the new expansion patch, not in the middle of an expansion.<br /><br />I stopped playing a few months ago having cleared all normal content and about half of heroic content. I think maybe i would have come back in the end of this expansions and try to do some raids I missed casually, but now it would be just running through easymode content. I don't think I would be interested in that.<br /><br />I think this should've been handled a lot differently of making this nerf completely optional, if they really want an 'easy' option to complete raids.Lomeinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-20887584403598732102011-05-25T14:48:41.215-05:002011-05-25T14:48:41.215-05:00I hope Blizz will make it a timed nerf debuff that...I hope Blizz will make it a timed nerf debuff that can be removed if desired, just like ICC was done. This way the semi-serious raiding guilds can still say they downed Nef pre-nerf truthfully and it still opens the content for the lesser-ability social guilds to complete the raids also.mushunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-3260882723548138372011-05-25T14:38:24.371-05:002011-05-25T14:38:24.371-05:00@Dancingblade & Siobhann
I knew that line was...@Dancingblade & Siobhann<br /><br />I knew that line was going to upset some people. Let me try and explain it.<br /><br />Yes it is a broad generalization, and there are exceptions to it like everything. For example, there are new players that are very serious about raiding and progression, but are still learning and have other things that keep them in a more casual raiding environment. That said I'm not going to modify my comment for all the potential exceptions because I think it is accurate for a vast majority of guilds and players who have some T11 raiding experience but aren’t 12/12 yet.<br /><br />I think our differences really revolve around how we define "serious." Let me use an example. I like to play soccer, and I used to play informally every week with group of guys at the park. While it was a very regular group I would in no way call what we did "serious." We didn't analyze each other's play. We didn't recruit. Nothing was formal about it other then the regular time and the general positions people tended to play on the field. This doesn't mean we didn't have fun or that we didn't like competition, but you couldn't call it all that "serious" either.<br /><br />@Siobhann specifically<br /><br />I understand where you are coming from. I am a husband, father of two, and I have a full time career. I understand the time constraints involved. I know it's not fun to have content you are working on nerfed, but try and be fair. Blizzard isn't taking away any content you paid for. The content has been there for almost 6 months and you've chosen for whatever reason (and I'm sure they are good) not to take advantage of it. You can't expect Blizzard to hold the game constant. They have to make chooses depending on what they think is best for the entire player base and their product. Unfortunately with many positives changes there is someone who is impacted negatively, and you seem to be the unlucky one this time.<br /><br />@Aggrazel<br /><br />I completely agree with that. I have all these titles that I was extremely proud of when I got them but are now cheapen by gear inflation. I think we could debate when is the right time to remove a title and or mount reward, but I do find it a bit sad that titles like Immortal and Bane of the Lich King have no meaning any more. That is the main reason why I still wear the Ardent Defender title.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48307265735063941812011-05-25T13:52:08.536-05:002011-05-25T13:52:08.536-05:00I have no problem with them nerfing the content at...I have no problem with them nerfing the content at all. I just think that when they push out gear resets they should remove the titles from the game from the previous tier. It used to be a badge of honor to wear your "Bane of the Fallen King" title around Dalaran, but now everyone has one. Starcaller? Yeah I see about 2-3 pug groups a week going and getting one. Nerf the content so people can see it, sure, but throw a bone to those that actually fought the content when it was relevant and make the titles something unique.Aggrazelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09479354318371629398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27924223132932231892011-05-25T13:27:05.706-05:002011-05-25T13:27:05.706-05:00"If you haven't cleared the T11 normal mo..."If you haven't cleared the T11 normal mode bosses at this point of the expansion, you clearly aren't serious about raiding or progression."<br /><br />Excuse me, but last time I checked WoW is only a race to clear content for people who choose to play that way. My guild raids once a week for three hours. We love to raid, and though we just got to Nef, it doesn't mean we want nerfed fights to kill him. We cleared everything last expansion, just somewhat behind the progress curve of guilds who raid 2-3 times a week.<br /><br />Having children, jobs, families and time limitations doesn't mean we want an easier game. Blizzard is basically taking away content we paid for; well-tuned and challenging fights. It is already a "nerf" to current content when T11 goes to the JP vendors. That was sufficient and changing the mechanics goes overboard for slower-progressing guilds.Siobhannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-53461854473781167082011-05-25T13:09:14.614-05:002011-05-25T13:09:14.614-05:00"If you haven't cleared the T11 normal mo...<i>"If you haven't cleared the T11 normal mode bosses at this point of the expansion, you clearly aren't serious about raiding or progression."</i><br /><br />Gross generalization.<br /><br />...but otherwise, your analysis is spot on: QQ is quite unnecessary. To be honest, I think the QQ is a CLEANSING mechanism for those that are TOO FULL of themselves.Dancingbladenoreply@blogger.com