tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post2555511114691353672..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: WoW Lacks Significant RewardsGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-53761800431461733082010-05-20T17:18:06.533-05:002010-05-20T17:18:06.533-05:00Heey,
Even tho the those rewards become lesser in...Heey,<br /><br />Even tho the those rewards become lesser in value to you, always know you still got a date tagged to it. <br /><br />But overall your right, WoW is becomming way to much of a mainstream game, every idiot that has cash can play it, and raid in the newest instance. Like me ^^.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-37651243288761374652010-05-18T17:04:21.155-05:002010-05-18T17:04:21.155-05:00I understand and empathize with wanting rewards to...I understand and empathize with wanting rewards to mean something. I had my first jolt of Blizzard reality when I ground my way to Commander for the cat, felt very proud of myself, and then, only a matter of two weeks later or so, saw them all over the server, purchasable by battleground marks. Still, I knew my own accomplishment.<br /><br />My husband is not as "hard-core" a player as I am (although I wouldn't consider myself "hard-core.") His chief complaint in BC was always that, once he got behind me in progression, he could never raid with me, because he could never hope to catch up at all. The gear deficit was largely insurmountable. So he was delighted to see the changes in Wrath allowing those who didn't have as much time as others to be able to gear up sufficiently to experience newer content.<br /><br />It's hard to know what the right compromise should be. In the mean time, once Kingslayer becomes too common on my server, I will switch back to wearing Herald of the Titans, which nobody can disparage. :)Anachanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00544003519381539691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-69334906532682034392010-05-14T10:05:46.600-05:002010-05-14T10:05:46.600-05:00I am strange to others in this regard. I view rew...I am strange to others in this regard. I view reward based upon what I *do* have, instead of what others *don't* have. If I have a title that someone else doesn't, it offers no additional value to that title. I earned that title and that was my reward regardless if other people can repeat it. The real reward was the fun and enjoyment of the journey; a sentiment I partake in video games, not real life where the journey matters not: pay me my money. While the gated approach to the raids provides an equalization to everything earned, it changes not my reward from my personal contribution. I guess I just don't care what anyone else thinks of what I have or have not done, thus my "reward" is biased towards personal enjoyment instead of showmanship, bragging rites, or other innocent and devilish public display of achievement.<br /><br />Then again, I am also simplistic. A box marked 'frah jee lee' with a major reward inside is exciting to me, even if it turns out to be a naked leg lamp. I enjoy raiding much like a Stableford Golf tourney, where the fix is the last performance I had on the fight and the "reward" is doing better than last time. The more improvement, the more enjoyment. I don't care who else does what as long as the bosses drop and I keep doing better.Griemakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16438400933254634350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-86801531151260138702010-05-14T03:08:03.864-05:002010-05-14T03:08:03.864-05:00"Bell said...
This is what is slowly turning ..."Bell said...<br />This is what is slowly turning me off from Cataclysm. It takes me a long time to develop the skills to play, but when I get it I keep working at it. Now I'm in a top Alliance guild, pushing for server and faction firsts and then...<br /><br />Wow, no more high score? Every Tom, Dick and Larry can do what I do while lolfacesmashing their keyboard? That poorly itemized Druid who spams Nourish is a Kingslayer? Really?<br /><br />I'm rapidly running out of reasons to care about WoW. What is the point of trying to be good at a game where it doesn't matter if you're good, because being bad brings the same rewards?"<br /><br /><br />This. Exactly this. They are dumbing the game down entirely way too much and will easily alienate a rather large chunk of their current subscribers if they continue to go down this road of making everything that much more simple for the casual raider to be as good as the hardcore raider. <br /><br />I strive to be the best in everything and if I can just face roll this with little effort on my part I will quickly lose interest. This can be especially well seen with the current raid wide buff in ICC, the bigger it gets the more I care less as it is already becomign perfectly faceroll. <br /><br />We have taken the challenge out of the game already short Lich King, I can only imagine what things are going to look like when the buff reaches it's max(30% I believe)? Tuning 1 boss of 12 to nearly require a large chunk of said buff was a horrible idea and I really do hope blizzard learns from this complete mistake.<br /><br />-Solbia of DoomhammerUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13878974778712459527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-37137343572470796092010-05-13T17:54:38.921-05:002010-05-13T17:54:38.921-05:00@Graylo
Okay, yeah, that is fair enough. Carry on...@Graylo<br /><br />Okay, yeah, that is fair enough. Carry on. <3Ettinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17826209392141558228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-11360396524280200632010-05-13T15:50:53.930-05:002010-05-13T15:50:53.930-05:00Honestly I have been reading this blog forever. In...Honestly I have been reading this blog forever. In fact, it is an autostarted tab that I have running every time I fire up my browser. <br /><br />I agree that there is a serious over homogenization of WoW. The things that made classes unique are now shared with 2-4 other classes or specs, making utility for any class less meaningful. 310 mounts were a similar aspect. I worked my feathered fanny off to get my plagued proto in time. I worked hard to get my rusted drake before ToC. Hell, it took some doing to get the violet drake. <br /><br />I remember vanilla when epic was something of a point of awe. Yes the gear was terribly itemized for the most part, but you were proven to have genuinely accomplished something. Naxx retuned was a joke at best to someone who raided it as a level 60. Many raid achievements were received because you executed the fight properly rather than did something stupid along the way. <br /><br />Honestly I was of two minds during Burning Crusade regarding badge gear. Before 2.3 the gear was so awful for a moonkin that the only hope you had was that you could farm enough heroics to buy the loot at release. No guild on a council distribution could see good reason to hand loot to a moonkin back then. However, the t6 equivalent loot from farming Kara was disturbing. SSC was pure hell at tier appropriate. BT was not a walk in the park when it first opened. Deathwhisper was the first boss that made me feel like I was back to doing something worthwhile in hard modes. It was almost a return to the 11 weeks that I grinded away in order to down M'uru the first time. (BTW I was a lil ruffled at the 3.0 nerf on him, it felt like a slap in the face after working so hard). <br /><br />Raiding isn't just about what spell rotation we need. We are part of a team. We work with 9-24 of our fellow raid members to achieve amazing things. I can't claim to be the best, but I agree wholeheartedly with Graylo on this.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09670622893615951326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-30727276719748788432010-05-13T15:36:35.165-05:002010-05-13T15:36:35.165-05:00Hey Graylo,
Thanks for the response. It's ap...Hey Graylo,<br /><br />Thanks for the response. It's appreciated. My replay is not a disagreement. More a discussion topic.<br /><br />Wrt your quote: "...but it does diminish the perceived value of that accomplishment."<br /><br />Perceived by whom? Centainly not by you, since you know exactly what it took to achieve it. So are you concerned that others perceive your achievements as less then they should? If so then why you need others to perceive your accomplishments as you do?<br /><br />I realize I'm being obtuse. I understand where you're coming from. There is little motivation to work harder or win a competition if everyone has the same outcome. On the flip side I think the need for recognition eventually boils down to epeen. It's why people brag about position on DPS meters and equip items just to ramp up their gear score. <br /><br />It's a want vs need issue. Everyone wants recognition. But you get more enjoyment from a game if you don't need recognition, imo. Give everyone a black-proto and you're no longer getting what you want, but you still have what you need.<br /><br />Thanks again.Kill the Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623108284760659090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-10908991967415665442010-05-13T12:59:52.912-05:002010-05-13T12:59:52.912-05:00Long time reader, first time posting. Great blog. ...Long time reader, first time posting. Great blog. <br />Decided to stab at this cause i talk about it a lot with guildies.<br /><br />Anyhow I agree to some extent and then disagree. I agree in better rewards (via titles or mounts or whatever) for better players but i agree with the way Blizz has it. <br />From the sound of things no one seems to mind the rewards...they just mind the fact that they wont have the spotlight on them for long. I think its funny that this is with the thought of progression/elitism in mind. If folks want others to know they are good and want to show it, go out and get the newest reward. The idea is to progress right? Stay up with the Jones's or be better than them?<br />All I know is if you want me to know you are a good player and worked hard for something that you did a year ago, thats cool...I'll see your title, check your achvs, and see you got it a year ago and be impressed. Blizz did a good job adding dates on achvs. But if im looking at this great achv you got a year ago and you are currently in front of me wearing crap gear or on a run doing 5k dps I could care less that you were a good player a year ago lol.<br />I'm not a big fan of "Remember that time..." and like the idea of "What have you done for me lately".Chizznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-86356657527523269722010-05-13T12:05:39.624-05:002010-05-13T12:05:39.624-05:00Just remember that line in the movie The Incredibl...Just remember that line in the movie The Incredibles:<br /><br />"Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super, no one will be."<br /><br />kthxbai.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-87006874281337152992010-05-13T10:47:36.443-05:002010-05-13T10:47:36.443-05:00That's why I like gear limited achievements. I...That's why I like gear limited achievements. It negates the 'cheesing' of the achievement allowing the original bearers to hold onto some of the feeling they had when doing it was hard.<br /><br />It's the reason I wear Herald of the Titans over Kingslayer or any of the more recent titles. Well, in all honesty it's because I like the sound of it.. but I like that it is 'uncheesable'.billyhttp://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khadgar&cn=B%C3%AFllynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-9481800032093791652010-05-13T09:00:12.963-05:002010-05-13T09:00:12.963-05:00I think you can expect a reply from Gevlon soon ab...I think you can expect a reply from Gevlon soon about rewards and socials. He seems to know a whole lot about that :)<br /><br />I do think that rare mounts (though not the 310% speed buff) are some of the best rewards, since they're easy to show off and are highly visible. To that extent, they should have a cut-off period for achievement mounts so that they do remain rare. <br /><br />I know that means I would likely never have a shot at the mounts (since I almost never raid), but that's the whole point -- the reward has to be denied to a lot of people for it to feel awesome and distinct.<br /><br />Stuff like the celestial steed (made with the tears of noobs) is more of a community thing than anything else. Since everyone has one, everyone else can feel cool that they're just like the awesome raiders with their awesome titles and achievements because they have the same mount. But you whip out your rare proto-drake or head of Mimiron and make it clear that they're not like you at all.Sean Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04617196739240103425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-57465253572519436442010-05-13T08:49:38.599-05:002010-05-13T08:49:38.599-05:00The bottom line is that this is a computer game. ...The bottom line is that this is a computer game. The reward is fun in exchange for money. Those who consider WoW a job are really not using the product as intended. If someone is not having fun playing the game, and thus not feeling rewarded, then he or she should cancel their account and play a different game.<br /><br />Blizzard has made a very smart decision in the past year in changing the way WoW works to make the casual player feel more epic. This keeps the larger player base playing longer, and most of the hardcores stick around to do hard modes and get the highest item level gear despite their complaints.<br /><br />Until hardcores cancel accounts by the masses, Blizzard will continue to cater more toward the larger casual player base, while giving hardcores just enough reason to stick around.Ken Bowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02677984572855891290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-64947446572362930772010-05-13T08:28:47.074-05:002010-05-13T08:28:47.074-05:00This game is soo huge and the details within the g...This game is soo huge and the details within the game are so many and varied, I'm not surprised things go strange or messed up at times. <br /><br />I do think you are right that gear is not necessarily a reward because when you are rolling against 3 other people who all fought the same hard fight and you lose the roll, your so called reward is out the window. Now it is just gambling for gear.<br /><br />There will never be the perfect system and Blizzard seems to have tried many avenues for rewards. I love the idea of mounts or special pets but titles mean nothing to me; whereas I know others love the titles. <br /><br />OH and I love the varied topics here...keeps it interesting:)Chris and Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02698318668074944485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-21950729861471533952010-05-13T08:14:32.631-05:002010-05-13T08:14:32.631-05:00@Anon2
The problem isn't that some guilds get...@Anon2<br /><br />The problem isn't that some guilds get the reward first and others get them later. The problem is that the rewards are received on a sliding scale.<br /><br />I'll use ICC as an example. Some people get the Meta Mount with no buff from Thrall or Wrynn. Many are now getting it now with a 15% buff. I'm sure a ton of people will get it later with a 30% buff. <br /><br />If they could draw a line in the sand and say you have to be this good to get this mount then timing wouldn't matter that much. However, they are now letting the mounts be available way past the reasonable life of the content.<br /><br />@Kill the Tom<br /><br />Let me ask you this. Lets say you win employee of the month and get $1,000 bonus as a result, then a week later they give everyone else a $1,000 as well? What if your in a basketball league and you win MVP, and then the next week they desided to name everyone else MVP and give them a trophey as well?<br /><br />No, it doesn't diminish the significance of the accomplishment, but it does diminish the percieved value of that accomplishment. If I work my but off to get more money at work, but everyone eventually gets paid the same amount what is my motivation to work harder?<br /><br />@Ettin<br /><br />Comments that disagree wtih my post will be kept as long as they are civil. Posts that are insulting or off topic will be deleted. If my blog is not Moonkiny enough for someone they can tell send me an email or they can stop reading. This is not my job, and I don't write this just to teach everyone how to play a moonkin. I write this blog to express my thoughts. Disagree with them if you like, but don't tell me I should be posting about something else in the comments of a post. That is best done in an email.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-62428005542983805202010-05-13T03:41:39.507-05:002010-05-13T03:41:39.507-05:00Ever Since the Vanilla/BC days wow really had gone...Ever Since the Vanilla/BC days wow really had gone downhill, and I suppose I just outgrew it. Everything is tailored towards the casuals, Nothing is really hard earned and its created a dividing line between Elitist and the noobs. when say 40 man raiding or 25 man raiding was...simply RAIDING.<br /><br />now theres a "hard mode" and a Tier gear from emblems crap. The game was a lot better when it was harder and took longer to achieve things. and you had to go through a Ladder of sorts to get to Sunwell Plateau. after elementary school theres middle school, after that its highschool, after that college and so on...<br /><br />karazhan people COULD NOT jump into sunwell but nowadays fresh 80's can do heroics/dailies/weekly/ not have to do all the content before it and already jump into ICC thats not supposed to be okay.<br /><br />Go Demons Souls how you rock my world <3a2nxtcrav3rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48419559243741305002010-05-13T02:22:30.269-05:002010-05-13T02:22:30.269-05:00I have never been in the top tier of raiders. In v...I have never been in the top tier of raiders. In vanilla I got through most of MC--we never downed Domo or Rag, we worked on ZG but never downed Hakkar, and I remember quite spectacularly wiping to trash in Ony when it respawned while we waited for some special child to stop playing in the lava. In BC I helped to clear all but Illidan before the major nerf, but after attunements were lifted. Now in ICC, my guild is working hard to get LK down, my 10man group has 9/12 hardmodes down. I don't consider myself a super hardcore raider. All of that being said...<br /><br />I spent about an hour last night talking to a friend about the "good ol' days" of Vanilla when an achievement (ranks in pvp, tiers of gear, downing of bosses, etc) MEANT something. Sure, not EVERYBODY on the server was rank 14. But when you saw someone that was, you knew damn well they'd put a lot of time and effort into it. When you saw someone in full tier 2, it was pretty amazing. To this day I say I fell for my bf's tier 2--nemesis was gorgeous.<br /><br />So if it makes me an elitist brat, fine. I don't think everybody and their brother should have the biggest and best things in this game. If everybody drove a porsche, a ferarri, etc, they wouldn't be as cool as they are. I will likely never own one of those cars myself and I'm okay with that. I can admire it from afar and appreciate it. Someone either worked really hard for it or was born into it--the same way people either bust their butts for progression or are carried by guildies.<br /><br />The fact that everybody seems to feel entitled to everything just because they pay their $14.99 a month seems ridiculous to me. The fact that our raiders can go reroll an alt, level it to 80 and get it raid-ready in 2 weeks is utterly crazy.<br /><br />I would rather have rewards that I REALLY want that are difficult to get that maybe I will never have but that at least MEAN something, than to be surrounded by the gimme gimme gimme nonsense.<br /><br />And all the people posting and bashing that you are elitist, that your blog isn't writing about what they want to hear, etc... I have a feeling they just don't want to work for it. If they are a casual raider that "plays this game to enjoy playing with friends," etc... then they don't need the big fancy schmancy sports car. They will do just fine in their buick, thanks.Celeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14149520013198407031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-80884338145211261862010-05-13T01:58:20.460-05:002010-05-13T01:58:20.460-05:00Its very simple:
Inmortal title in Naxx times: I ...Its very simple:<br /><br />Inmortal title in Naxx times: I have a raid of skilled m...f... who beat Naxx without dying.<br /><br />Inmortal title NOW: I was conected through WOTLK.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226681917658860322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-62492878211143138772010-05-12T21:32:32.428-05:002010-05-12T21:32:32.428-05:00That what I read your post as wasn't the case,...That what I read your post as wasn't the case, I mean. Not that I hope you being a decent guy isn't the case.<br /><br /><i>Yeah.</i>Ettinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17826209392141558228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-79836984191971290422010-05-12T21:21:21.941-05:002010-05-12T21:21:21.941-05:00@Graylo:
I think you're a good blogger and I&...@Graylo:<br /><br />I think you're a good blogger and I've liked all your posts so far. What gets me is suggesting that you're going to start deleting criticism.<br /><br />You're free to decide what to write about and people are free to skip them if they like, but they should <i>also</i> be free to read it and comment, if that's their wish.<br /><br />It's fine to disagree with the others calling you elitist - though I'm not sure if you disagree with the word itself being applied to you or the negative connotations associated with the word these days - and to mention that in your posts (though they are starting to get a little patronising), but to address them directly and then provide them with a Hobson's choice ("skip this post or I'll delete yours") is a terrible attitude to take on a blog.<br /><br />It seems possible that you just weren't as clear as you could have been when you said that and you didn't <i>mean</i> that you're going to delete comments if they criticise you, and you seem like a decent guy. I hope that isn't the case!Ettinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17826209392141558228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-52282014178695405412010-05-12T18:46:54.055-05:002010-05-12T18:46:54.055-05:00I don't get why so many people feel the need t...I don't get why so many people feel the need to show everyone who plays the game what they accomplished. Remember the old times? Back then when all the games were played offline and all gratification you got (if any at all) was a fancy outro and perhaps a place in some highscore no one else will ever see?<br />I think there should be something else motivating you than rubbing it in other people faces how you accomplished something they didn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-42957825121932406952010-05-12T17:32:38.153-05:002010-05-12T17:32:38.153-05:00It makes me sad that people are giving you flak fo...It makes me sad that people are giving you flak for being right.<br /><br />I like how you said that gear isn't a reward. This is especially going to be true with the ten and 25 man changes when gear becomes more equal. Hopefully they do introduce some things that are actually rewards, like mounts and other non raid use items.Kyanrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18169712435518821613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-52592422917005155072010-05-12T17:08:57.697-05:002010-05-12T17:08:57.697-05:00Hey Graylo, nice article. I agree with your main ...Hey Graylo, nice article. I agree with your main point. A question about this comment though, "the Black Proto-drakes show that you beat the T7 content in level appropriate gear..."<br /><br />Say they gave everyone a black proto tomorrow. Why would that diminish the significance of your accomplishment? You still did a damn hard set of achievements with level appropriate gear, right? <br /><br />Thanks again.Kill the Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623108284760659090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-77715248681021660882010-05-12T16:56:12.586-05:002010-05-12T16:56:12.586-05:00there are unique titles for defeating heroic LK......there are unique titles for defeating heroic LK....<br /><br />Bane of the Fallen King - 10man heroic<br /><br />The Light of Dawn - 25man heroicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-88062626441095031622010-05-12T14:53:39.516-05:002010-05-12T14:53:39.516-05:00It definitely seems like Blizzard spending less ti...It definitely seems like Blizzard spending less time on designing higher level rewards (and more on microtransactions >.<). <br /><br />This could be due to the great majority of design resources being spent on getting Cataclysm out asap. Though it can't take too much effort to remove the T7 and T8 Metas.<br /><br />I am still bewildered that our gaming overlords didn't think to include a special title for Heroic LK 25. I'm not really interested in Arthas' Pegacorn (Unisys?) but Zombie Lord Goad has a nice ring to it!Goadhttp://hawaiiansgaming.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-46438927314566935912010-05-12T13:37:04.798-05:002010-05-12T13:37:04.798-05:00Perhaps some of the feeling that rewards are commo...Perhaps some of the feeling that rewards are common place is due to the fact we are toward the end of an expansion cycle. Leading edge guilds could get rewards early while those who brute force them by being over geared get them significantly later. Should you be able to get a reward and rest on your laurels, or should you constantly have to battle to stay on top?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com