tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post3196642361650229741..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Patch Notes 3.1: Ok, We've had some time to think.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-52976620751496668312009-03-13T11:23:00.000-05:002009-03-13T11:23:00.000-05:00With the NG change to a 20% haste buff over 3s and...With the NG change to a 20% haste buff over 3s and the fact that the gap between wrath and starfire eclipse become minimal, could a wrath x2 starfire x1 (to maximize the cast time reduction of each NG proc and reduce the impact of the eclipse spell switch) become actually the best way to try to proc eclipse?<BR/><BR/>Because there are 3 ways of using this NG proc, wrath x3, starfire x2, or wrath x2 starfirex1, assuming no haste at all, wrath x3 provides a 20% haste over 4.5s of cast with 3 spells to proc NG again, starfire x2 provides 20% haste over 6s but only 2 spells to proc NG and wrath x2 Starfire x1 provides 20% haste over 6s with 3 spells to proc NG again.<BR/><BR/>Since Wrath has travel time, if the first wrath would actually proc eclipse, chances are that the player would be ending his 2nd wrath or maybe already casting starfire, so the logic about losing 1 spell worth of cast time in each eclipse proc could be kinda sorted out.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the long CommentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48513680512879239862009-03-12T11:50:00.000-05:002009-03-12T11:50:00.000-05:00@MurmursI wasn't surprised that Solar won in a spe...@Murmurs<BR/><BR/>I wasn't surprised that Solar won in a spell vs spell comparison, but I was surprised at how close they were when I compared them rotation vs Rotation. I found that when you combine the change to NG and 30% crit from Eclipse, that NG has almost 100% uptime. So I guess it makes sense.<BR/><BR/>@Genetic<BR/><BR/>I should probably do a Moonkin Glyph post at some point but I've got other some stuff I want to do first.<BR/><BR/>The short answer is what Murmurs said. My napkin math and what I've read agrees with what he said.<BR/><BR/>@Luminnous<BR/><BR/>When I say a "Starfire Rotation" I mean a rotation that focuses on SF and buffs its damage. This will of course include Wrath to proc Lunar Eclipse, but I consider the entire thing a a starfire rotation.<BR/><BR/>@Eilelia<BR/><BR/>I've heard that suggestion before and I don't really like it, but it may become better with 3.1. <BR/><BR/>Basically Lunar(SF) eclipse is much better then Solar(w) eclipse. By switching back and forth your are using an inferior buff 50% of the time. It may be a little easier to manage but it is definately a DPS loss.<BR/><BR/>It may be a little more viable in 3.1 because Solar Eclipse is buffed, but we will have to see how everything shakes out.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-53479158716968419362009-03-12T11:01:00.000-05:002009-03-12T11:01:00.000-05:00I have been immersed in moonkin-theory research th...I have been immersed in moonkin-theory research the past week or so, and I have to say that I love your blog and all the comment discussions. After integrating a lot of the things learned here, I am quickly and steadily climbing up the raid DPS meters and feeling like a much more competent and useful laser chicken. So, ty =)<BR/><BR/>Question:<BR/><BR/>A guildie recommended that I max DPS by alternating wrath/starfire - basically switching on each Eclipse proc and staying with that spell till it procs the other way. Thoughts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-13478751918463249322009-03-12T04:36:00.000-05:002009-03-12T04:36:00.000-05:00@ LuminnousNormally you only cast wrath during the...@ Luminnous<BR/><BR/>Normally you only cast wrath during the time where eclipse is coming off internal cooldown, there is usually a 5-10 second window where you are casting wrath each rotationC.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07554784883158106211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-76413584066075623062009-03-11T17:18:00.000-05:002009-03-11T17:18:00.000-05:00I am still wondering one thing. You call it a Star...I am still wondering one thing. You call it a Starfire rotation, but to proc the Starfire buffed eclipse you have to cast Wrath many times and when you begin with Starfire you only get 3-4 Starfires off during the proc. <BR/><BR/>Mabye you are casting Starfire through the hidden CD and then back to Wrath? Is this where the rotation becomes Starfire heavy?<BR/><BR/>What is the average proc casts for you when casting wrath to proc Starfire? If your lucky, all three casts will crit, but not usually.<BR/><BR/>Just curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-68980308495778565432009-03-11T16:46:00.000-05:002009-03-11T16:46:00.000-05:00I can answer that one Genetic:Right now, from test...I can answer that one Genetic:<BR/><BR/>Right now, from testing that I've done, I can say that the Glyph of Starfall is not worth losing any of the other three Glyphs over. As long as you can keep a 50% uptime on Insect Swarm, then the Insect Swarm Glyph will net a higher DPS return. <BR/><BR/>The Moonfire and Starfire Glyphs are still the highest.<BR/><BR/>I haven't done much testing on the Glyph of Focus. I can see some pros and some cons to it.<BR/><BR/>Overall, however, the choice isn't overly significant. We're speaking in terms of probably around 100 DPS if that. If you're raid is generally light on AoE damage, then either Focus or Starfall are perfectly viable without destroying your DPS nor the scaling of Insect Swarm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-79330300340389806542009-03-11T16:07:00.000-05:002009-03-11T16:07:00.000-05:00Graylo you should address the Starfall Issue, with...Graylo you should address the Starfall Issue, with the lowered cooldown how big a roll will the new starfall play in moonkin DPS and will it be worth glyphing for with either/or Glyph of Focus and Glyph of Starfall.Genetichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09837994012433448467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-13406081665305138412009-03-11T16:05:00.000-05:002009-03-11T16:05:00.000-05:00A very solid assesment Graylo, as always. It's not...A very solid assesment Graylo, as always. <BR/><BR/>It's not all that unexpected that, spell by spell, a Solar Eclipse outperforms a Lunar Eclipse; at least I wasn't surprised by it.<BR/><BR/>Most things you mentioned show why Lunar is still favored despite this, however a few things that you didn't mention were: Potions of Speed are better than Potions of Wild Magic. While this only effects one Eclipse proc, that is a major benefit to a Lunar Eclipse. <BR/><BR/>The Starfire Idol still trumps the Wrath Idol. This also makes us want to cast Starfre more than Wrath in ny given rotation.<BR/><BR/>The Meta Gem favors a Lunar Eclipse. While not a major increase, 9% more damage on critical strikes plays into the favor of getting more of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-20235508944437607122009-03-11T15:41:00.000-05:002009-03-11T15:41:00.000-05:00@AnonymousApparently you did not read my entire po...@Anonymous<BR/><BR/>Apparently you did not read my entire post or choose to ignore the parts that don't agree with your view point. <BR/><BR/>In an ideal Mathimatical sense Wrath > Starfire spell for spell in terms of DPS. However, If you look in my post you will see that when you compare the rotations Wrath's advantage deminishes. On top of that, It ignores the addtional Latency that Wrath suffers from but Starfire does not.<BR/><BR/>In a practicle sense Wrath and SF are very close to each other in terms of DPS, but SF is clearly superior in terms of DPM. Therefore SF is the favored rotation in my opinion. That is not to say that there are not times when Wrath is superior, as I have indicated a couple of examples in my post, but SF is the main rotation in my opinion right now.<BR/><BR/>Now the second thing I want to talk about is your comment that you beat other moonkin by 1000 dps in races. I find this statement a little funny. Not because I think it is incorrect, but it makes some huge assumptons and ignores basic facts.<BR/><BR/>Fact of the matter is a lot of things going into determining someone's DPS for a particular fight, and equating a 1000 DPS difference to spell choice is unrealistic. Even under ideal circumstances wrath is not that good. You also have to consider gear, RNG, internet connection, role with in the raid, and you may just be a better player then they are.<BR/><BR/>There are plenty of things that can cause you to beat someone by 1000 dps that have nothing to do with spell choice.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-42425722880114298262009-03-11T15:27:00.000-05:002009-03-11T15:27:00.000-05:00^ and then you run into some decent geared moonkin...^ and then you run into some decent geared moonkins and they blow you out of the water. Not only do they beat you on the damage meters, they have 70% mana while you've been OOM for the last minute of the fight, all the while they're doing more aoe damage/throwing up IFF for the raid (i.e., they don't have to waste talents on mana regen... not that you necessarily do either but you could).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82150150051026549612009-03-11T14:34:00.000-05:002009-03-11T14:34:00.000-05:00Even after your stats indicate Wrath is supperior ...Even after your stats indicate Wrath is supperior to Starfire in DPS, you still consider SF rotation the best?<BR/><BR/>Wrath beats SF hands-down(period)<BR/><BR/>I love getting into DPS races with other moonkins who use SF rotation in raids. They are usually 1000dps lower and then whisper me with, wow!, how'd you do that?, what am I doing wrong? etc.<BR/><BR/>Very simple, I don't use SF - ever!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com