tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post512251924992603426..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Frost Emblems: Idol vs Tier SetGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-80580866670158697272010-02-17T18:15:31.945-06:002010-02-17T18:15:31.945-06:00I figured this problem out a while back but forgot...I figured this problem out a while back but forgot to post my solution. It's really easy and people in-game have been doing this for quite some time so I imagine if it were an abuse of game mechanics Blizzard would have clamped down on it by now.<br /><br />The solution is to get the 4t10 first. The reasoning is that you can get the 2t10 relatively easily and use that along with 2t9 while you save up the remaining 190 badges to complete the set. While you save for the initial 2t10 and the completion of the 4t10 you can use the idol while in ICC simply by buying it from the vendor and returning it before the 2 hour refund time limit is up.<br /><br />From the cost-benefit analysis perspective there's nothing better than this that I can see. While you save up any time you have 30 or more emblems saved you can leverage the idol as if you owned it as long as you don't forget to refund it. Thus you get to use the idol for something like 70-80% of the time on your way to 4t10 and you still get 4t10 as early as possible. And in my position the cloak from emblems is so much better than what I have that even without enchant and gem that I can rent it and benefit.<br /><br />If you're a multi-spec druid (I bear tank in addition to moonkin) you can leverage your emblem stockpile as you save up for tier to help tanking also. Corroded Skeleton Key and Sentinel's Winter Cloak are some of the best around, in addition to the feral idol.<br /><br />Just don't forget to refund rented items in time, if you go over the time limit then congratulations you bought it - and that'll set you way back on your road to 4t10.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-14619364373709233712010-01-10T13:47:54.381-06:002010-01-10T13:47:54.381-06:00I got the Plague Scientist's Boots today. Ther...I got the Plague Scientist's Boots today. There's 2 sockets in them not one. A red and a blue one.Monninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-91560903807566487292009-12-29T17:33:47.952-06:002009-12-29T17:33:47.952-06:00Thanks for the simplified breakdown. Obviously, a...Thanks for the simplified breakdown. Obviously, as you say yourself, it kind of all hinges on your current set up. For me, who never managed to escape the dreaded T9 legs, getting one piece of T10 (shoulders) was a massive upgrade, so went for that first, and equipped it. Then, as I still had no decent off-tier piece, a second T10 (gloves) was again a massive upgrade, since even though the straight swap of T9->T10 gloves was a stat downgrade, the 2part set bonus was a nice thing, and I'm now free again to equip the Leggings of Woven Death as soon as I get the Saronite to make them.<br /><br />In short, for me, getting the first two pieces of T10 as my first two purchases was a no-brainer. <br /><br />Now, however, I'm in the situation that most folk have been in since the start: keep collecting Tier stuff, or grab the idol? Everything I'd seen had said "tier first", but hearing that the new wing was to open next week (not sure if this has been officially confirmed or not, so don't punt me if it's false) I thought getting another tier piece would become easier, so not like I need to scrimp and save for them like I have been, right? Your numbers pretty much back that up, and as soon as my 2EoF turn into 30, I'll be getting me that Idol.Jennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661821242487844510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-47599708646617295182009-12-26T00:04:23.374-06:002009-12-26T00:04:23.374-06:00While I believe your idol vs tier logic is sound i...While I believe your idol vs tier logic is sound in itself, I believe there is much more to the complete picture. For example, my situation:<br /><br />I am currently using 4t9.245 head/chest/shoulders/gloves combined with the 245 normal version of the anub'arak leather legs. I picked up the Ring of Rapid Ascent this past week in ICC25, which puts me near the bottom of the DKP list. Currently I am using the cord of biting cold and cloak of displacement. The fact that 2t10.251/2t9.245 is incredibly close to 4t9.245 makes the decision very easy. The logic: Due to already picking up the ring,the tier pieces will not be an upgrade for quite a while, essentially equating to "money later". Less valuable than money now, as economics tells us. With the lists of gear currently discovered, the badge belt is likely to remain BiS, unless a cloth or leather crit/haste belt is found from 25man ICC,in which case the heroic version will beat out the badge belt. This piece is immediately usable, a larger upgrade than the t10 idol will be for most moonkins, and has a decent chance of remaining BiS. Another piece of frost gear that should be evaluated is the cloak, which has two options, spirit or mp5, there will surely be a better itemized option in icecrown; even if this is not the case, the belt is still a larger upgrade. The last piece of emblem gear is the gloves, another crit/haste piece, but this breaks my 4t9 bonus. While the topic of this post was idol vs tier pieces, I felt the need to digress, and I think a more accurate answer to the idol vs tier piece question is, for me: the belt; and for everyone else: evaluate the upgrades based on your personal situation.valnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-30914571400243010992009-12-23T07:09:59.251-06:002009-12-23T07:09:59.251-06:00I got the idol.
Am I doomed?
The answer is no.I got the idol.<br /><br />Am I doomed?<br /><br />The answer is no.Silencerbobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-47218553095403644352009-12-23T03:48:53.650-06:002009-12-23T03:48:53.650-06:00I have got annoyed on lower mana fights in having ...I have got annoyed on lower mana fights in having to use Moonfire to keep up my crit bonus and like you I did the numbers and realised it would delay 2-piece bonus by 1 week, but make no effect to the 4-piece assuming I didn't miss any emblems on the way. I didn't see this as a particularly big deal, and so decided to take the idol now rather than 2 months or so down the line. <br /><br />I don't intend to pick up tier until I get the 2-piece in one step most likely, and likewise when it comes to 4-piece.<br /><br />Either way I really don't think it makes a big difference. The chances are that by the time Arthas is here we'll have our 4 piece tier 10 and an idol anyway, or at worst be a week or so away from that.<br /><br />Until the heroics come out, does progress in ICC really matter that much? considering the normal mode is so easily puggable :PAeiedilhttp://www.strayegg.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48082660349878455582009-12-23T03:37:33.914-06:002009-12-23T03:37:33.914-06:00Personally I'm saving for the frost emblem bel...Personally I'm saving for the frost emblem belt first as I usually work on a 'biggest upgrade first' methodology.<br /><br />In this example I will be upgrading from a 213 belt to a BiS belt which will last for ages and not be replaced by any tier/drops etc.<br />Whilst the idol is a dps increase in a raid situation, the upgrade is far smaller for me than some of my other pieces (still got some t8 :s) <br />I aim to be in a place to hold the 4pc t9, 245 idol, frost emblem belt and the 232 neck, 232 offhand and 251 weapon from the new heroics before worrying about the new idol.<br />At this point, only after completing my t9 will I make a decision to replace (or not) the idol before going for t10 pieces.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09746289050934673133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-7253240781256294902009-12-22T23:45:55.259-06:002009-12-22T23:45:55.259-06:00No one so far has mentioned that the idol is only ...No one so far has mentioned that the idol is only a dps upgrade in long fights, i.e. boss fights (and a very minor one at that). For shorter fights (heroics) and trash pulls, the the inability to have the full amount of crit with no ramp up time, along with the extra gcd spent casting IS in situations where you didn't use it before (aoeing) makes the new idol a dps downgrade in some cases. The dps requirements for ICC normal mode aren't high enough to justify downgrading the dps you'll be doing for most of your raid (trash aoe), especially when those badges are better spent elsewhere.<br /><br />Regardless of order you'll probably have your idol before you're doing hardmodes anyway.Dendriusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-60625346920235039782009-12-22T22:40:47.823-06:002009-12-22T22:40:47.823-06:00Actually, for me it's not even that easy to co...Actually, for me it's not even that easy to consider, to be honest the best upgrade is the belt right away, because for myself and other high end raiding guild moonkins, we have heroic tier 9, which mean the bonuses from getting a tier 10 piece, only comes once I get tokens as well. I think for myself and others in my position, it means grabbing belt, idol, tier piece w/ token, tier piece w/ token, etc...Noodleswoopnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-8825086258143249802009-12-22T21:18:19.510-06:002009-12-22T21:18:19.510-06:00Nice post Graylo. In the end, I agree with you: I...Nice post Graylo. In the end, I agree with you: I really don't think it will matter in which order we get stuff. Since I have two pieces of 258 (helm and chest ofc), I'll be leaning toward 2T10 first. <br /><br />I'm more interested in figuring out what non-set piece I will end up using (gloves or legs most likely, since we'll probably end up using the three that have sp/crit/haste). It looks like we'll be able to build a nice set of gear that has very little (if any) spirit on it. <br /><br />@MuShU - Gevlon has discussed that money now > money later. It was in a post related to Fusion's guild vault getting plundered when their GM's account got hacked. [Not that I'm a fanboy or anything - I just remember the post.]Talshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-54380189330728926442009-12-22T20:56:03.313-06:002009-12-22T20:56:03.313-06:00Hmm, it seems a little exploitative, however I bel...Hmm, it seems a little exploitative, however I believe we can have our cake and eat it too - thanks to the combination of vendors in the instance AND the 2 hour refund system, what I'm going to do is simply buy the idol and sell it back within 2 hours for each raid night. Sure, after buying each tier piece there might be a night without the idol, but I think this is a nice way to get both.Mobusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-13102345107256368682009-12-22T18:35:12.415-06:002009-12-22T18:35:12.415-06:00Bravo, sir. I hope you didn't mind me using so...Bravo, sir. I hope you didn't mind me using some of your initial thoughts on the trinket in the wow forums /hides.Woodlayerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836838517635010976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-54473854911549852372009-12-22T18:30:49.407-06:002009-12-22T18:30:49.407-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Woodlayerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15836838517635010976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-63881212866377361982009-12-22T15:59:52.031-06:002009-12-22T15:59:52.031-06:00I've been debating about this as well on my Mo...I've been debating about this as well on my Moonkin.<br /><br />"Should I get the idol now because it's a definite DPS increase and will last me the rest of the current expansion or should I hold off until I can buy 4 pieces of my T10?"<br /><br />I think the idol makes sense for that exact reason. It *is* a DPS increase, granted it's kind of minimal, but it makes more sense than buying T10 that is going to rest in the bank for about 2 months.<br /><br />With the increased stats and 2 set bonus, do you think it's worth using 2T9 and 2T10?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-22290899423797003812009-12-22T15:43:44.726-06:002009-12-22T15:43:44.726-06:00I intend to purchase my shoulders + gloves first, ...I intend to purchase my shoulders + gloves first, then the Idol second. I'm ready to drop the spirit stat off the T9 pieces.Beamznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-33411628883643632502009-12-22T14:54:10.239-06:002009-12-22T14:54:10.239-06:00I ultimately can agree with the post, but not for ...I ultimately can agree with the post, but not for myself. I have been lucky enough to be in a situation where:<br /><br />a. I have gotten the [currently] full clears of 10 and 25 man.<br />b. Raid weekly.<br />c. Daily every day. <br />d. A win of the token on the second week (just before I got enough for the idol).<br /><br />Given that I'm in full t9 except for my chest (258, Vestments of Shattered Fellowship), I decided to wait until this Wednesday (assuming my raid invites hold out) to get the Sanctified chest, and then start focusing on the Idol second. Then I'll start saving for the rest of my set pieces.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00313314653134011498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-87725366665250074122009-12-22T13:57:32.504-06:002009-12-22T13:57:32.504-06:00I agree with Graylo here. In my situation, I have ...I agree with Graylo here. In my situation, I have a couple of pieces of 258 tier 9, and because of that I won't simply be looking to upgrade to the tier 10 251, I'm looking for the 264 gear. So, in the mean time I'm going ahead and purchasing offset pieces until I get enough vanquisher's mark of sanctification for tier 10 ilvl 264. Since these will take longer to acquire than my emblems of frost because of my guild's raid composition, it's most beneficial to use my emblems now, instead of sitting on them later as I wait for more mark's of sanctification to drop. So, that is something else to consider for those saving for the tier 10 gear.Mîkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11011764305640904606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-55803456560280751692009-12-22T13:16:37.424-06:002009-12-22T13:16:37.424-06:00To further clarify my point, here is the 50 day br...To further clarify my point, here is the 50 day breakdown:<br /><br />Idol first<br />1: nothing<br />2-14: idol<br />15-23: idol+1pc<br />24-35: idol+2pc<br />36-49: idol+3pc<br />50+: idol+4pc<br /><br />Idol last<br />1-7: nothing<br />8-21: 1pc<br />22-35: 2pc<br />36-48: 3pc<br />49: 4pc<br />50+: idol+4pc<br /><br />Using idol last you get your 2pc bonus only 2 days ahead and your 4pc bonus only 1 day ahead of the idol first strategy.<br /><br />Total # days idol first "wins" (by having the idol at the same time as the tier pieces):<br />38 (2-7, 15-21, 24-48)<br /><br />Total # of days idol last "wins" (by enabling the purchase of tier pieces earlier):<br />10 (8-14, 22-23, 49)<br /><br />Days 1 and 50 are a wash as those are the starting and ending points when both strategies have the same items.Fenouilhttp://insight-medivh.guildportal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-77211527855003827822009-12-22T13:03:57.097-06:002009-12-22T13:03:57.097-06:00Excellent! I'm so glad someone put this out th...Excellent! I'm so glad someone put this out there. Too often, basic economics isn't even taught in school any more. Surprised Gevlon didn't cover this idea but I guess he's too busy raiding in cheap gear lately lol.<br /><br />*money now is worth more than money later*<br /><br />As well, the people that don't raid very often, like me (my schedule sucks), won't have access to enough badges for months since all I can do is run the daily heroic and weekly raid boss. I like the belt & cape lots but I think the idol will give me a bigger "bang for the buck" if you include time as a value in the equation.MuShUnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-87787401871177460012009-12-22T12:47:09.758-06:002009-12-22T12:47:09.758-06:00One point I don't think you didn't really ...One point I don't think you didn't really dwell on, Graylo, was that there are other pieces of gear for those slots than just tier, whereas there aren't other idols in ICC. Granted, the tier is likely what we will end up using, but in the mean time I'd rather have a better idol and some nicely itemized ICC gear than be waiting for the idol and sharding the ICC gear.Neirinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01917370089215187221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-14748259560134878232009-12-22T11:59:08.247-06:002009-12-22T11:59:08.247-06:00@ Fenouil
NERD! I love it. That is very refined l...@ Fenouil<br /><br />NERD! I love it. That is very refined logic. It helps thanksUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13649790737083810364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-73395378077407342982009-12-22T11:33:13.565-06:002009-12-22T11:33:13.565-06:00It's a fairly easy decision for me.
I still h...It's a fairly easy decision for me.<br /><br />I still had a 226 cape from Yogg of all places and I'm wearing haste/spirit boots and a hit/haste belt.<br /><br />I bought the cape first. I'll be getting the belt next and the crafted boots. That way I swap haste/spi and haste/hit for crit/hit and haste/crit.<br /><br />After the belt I'll start saving for tier. By then I'll have access to enough Trophies. Right now given that I'd only be upgrading to ilvl251 gear I'm not that enthused.Shemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00281768586755536058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-25039107243132245592009-12-22T09:04:45.216-06:002009-12-22T09:04:45.216-06:00While I think I agree with your deduction, I think...While I think I agree with your deduction, I think we need to look in a more granular fashion.<br /><br />Taking your original assumptions, the breakpoints are as follows:<br /><br />The "idol first" breakpoints<br />30 - Day 2<br />90 - Day 15<br />150 - Day 24<br />245 - Day 36<br />340 - Day 50<br /><br />The "idol last" breakpoints<br />60 - Day 8<br />120 - Day 22<br />215 - Day 36<br />310 - Day 49<br />340 - Day 50<br /><br />This means on days 2-7 & 15-21 you get the bonus of the idol while having the same bonus from tier purchases. On days 8-14 you'd have the bonus of the tier gear over the idol. On days 22-23 you'd have the bonus of a tier piece over the idol in the addition of a 2pc set bonus. However this is only 2 days of time.<br /><br />After this is when it gets interesting. With they way the weekly raids work, you get huge boosts of badges once a week, meaning that you'd get the 3rd piece of tier gear on the same day (day 36) <b>regardless of whether or not you buy the idol first</b>. This means that on days 24-35 you'd have the idol bonus when using the "idol first" strategy. On days 36-48, you'd have the same items regardless of which buying strategy you use. On day 49 if you use the "idol last" strategy, you can get the 4pc, but only one day ahead of the "idol first" strategy.<br /><br />So in conclusion, it really depends on how often you can run the daily random, when your raids are and so on, but in general the "idol first" strategy gives a benefit over the "idol last" strategy on a more consistent basis.Fenouilhttp://insight-medivh.guildportal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-73473006191429511662009-12-22T08:54:01.993-06:002009-12-22T08:54:01.993-06:00@Mowe
Let me reverse your arguement on you. Do yo...@Mowe<br /><br />Let me reverse your arguement on you. Do you actually need tier pieces over the next 8 weeks? As you say there are no hard modes, only acheivements.<br /><br />My point isn't that everyone should pick up the Idol first. My point is that it's probably doesn't matter much which you pick up first. <br /><br />Gevlon has clearly showed with his blue Ulduar that skill and knowledge are more important to success then gear. Gear definately helps, but not having a belt or idol isn't going to wipe your raid.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-31465771571581725202009-12-22T08:40:42.484-06:002009-12-22T08:40:42.484-06:00Somewhat, it also depends what content you have be...Somewhat, it also depends what content you have been doing. As a mostly 10-man raiding Moonkin, cloaks have been in limited availability. Since we've not yet gotten ToGC down with 0 wipes, the best bang for the buck is actually the cloak. RAWR was suggesting that upgrading it from the Ulduar 219 trash drop was better than upgrading 2 pieces of T10.245.Ghosellenoreply@blogger.com