tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post6402428665338807065..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Fun w/ SimulationCraft: Moonkin TrinketsGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-30924376970748718132010-06-03T23:18:46.142-05:002010-06-03T23:18:46.142-05:00I don't understand why people keep talking abo...I don't understand why people keep talking about too much haste past both crit and haste cap?<br /><br />In WrathCalcs, Rawr, and now SimCraft the more haste I get the more it seems to value it.<br /><br />Currently sitting at 1000 haste with 1070 crit. Playing with stats is easiest in WrathCalcs and not until I get way past 1200 haste does it even come down to meet crit in value.<br /><br />Now I would rather have more crit personally for that other 50% of the time and especially for Starfall, but the math doesn't lean that way from what I've seen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-67847225512894826442010-04-27T12:44:47.594-05:002010-04-27T12:44:47.594-05:00forgot to add this
personally, i like the H spygl...forgot to add this<br /><br />personally, i like the H spyglass over phylactery due to having constant spell buff and control over it, not losing time on buff to movement or mechanic, not losing time on buff to fight length. 100ICD is quite a bit of time. It should be 30sec length.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-77712515772655319292010-04-27T12:36:46.700-05:002010-04-27T12:36:46.700-05:00phylactery ICD = 100sec instead of 90sec as listed...phylactery ICD = 100sec instead of 90sec as listed. I believe that's been confirmed for a month or so now from people who have it and posted. (i do not have so i can't personally confirm)<br /><br />Reign - i don't see many people talking about it scaling with the ICC buff as well as scaling with crit. I've gotten 65% crit proc rate several times, i'm not sure if it's luck or if it somehow uses crit buff from talents-to-spells. Conjecture on my part but anyway, it crits, and we have mucho crito now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-77198973867669800852010-04-27T01:44:09.238-05:002010-04-27T01:44:09.238-05:00Hey Graylo,
i think you made a little mistake. Ph...Hey Graylo,<br /><br />i think you made a little mistake. Phylactery of the Nameless Lich procs for 1074 Spellpower and Phylactery of the Nameless Lich (H) for 1207.<br /><br />918 and 1032 are the old nonbuffed procs.<br /><br />Greetz EggiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-54618565180399432532010-04-26T17:27:25.166-05:002010-04-26T17:27:25.166-05:00@graylo Ah, misunderstood you. That's a good ...@graylo Ah, misunderstood you. That's a good idea, nice way to get a way better trinket.<br /><br />I'll see if my guildies want to run it with me.Duskstormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-2179040641424922892010-04-26T17:09:26.554-05:002010-04-26T17:09:26.554-05:00I know for a fact that Sarth+0 can be 7 maned and ...I know for a fact that Sarth+0 can be 7 maned and that was early 3.3.3 if not late trailAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-40329401976818232952010-04-26T14:46:35.068-05:002010-04-26T14:46:35.068-05:00What I mean was that 25man sarth is so easy that y...What I mean was that 25man sarth is so easy that you could probably 10man it at this point without the drakes up. You may even be able to 5 man it. I wasn't suggesting that IotDS was a 10man drop.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-9003837674304978702010-04-26T14:44:53.261-05:002010-04-26T14:44:53.261-05:00@Duskstorm
IotDS has always been a normal drop fr...@Duskstorm<br /><br />IotDS has always been a normal drop from Sarth+0.<br /><br />http://www.wowhead.com/zone=4493Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-51998267358507977062010-04-26T12:01:11.237-05:002010-04-26T12:01:11.237-05:00@Graylo
I don't think 10 man drops Illustrati...@Graylo<br /><br />I don't think 10 man drops Illustration when you kill with 2d or 3d up. Did that change at some point?<br /><br />All I'm saying about reign is that, on MY server, ToC25 (normal) is not something that is worth pugging. The vast majority of the ones I've been in are total fail, and the ones that aren't often still can't get anub down.<br /><br />Even if you're lucky and you get Anub down AND it drops, you've got to compete with several people, making this thing not worth farming for if there are no other upgrades for you in toc25.<br /><br />Just my opinion, but I can't justify the time it would take to farm toc25 every week for it (since I'm on a server where it's NOT a foregone conclusion that I can join a pug that will clear it in one hour).<br /><br />But you're right, you have to choose a base to start from, and I agree that these trinkets are pretty much available to anyone. I'm just saying that on MY server, I'd consider muradin's spyglass more accessible than the RotU.Duskstormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-63595474011553304672010-04-26T11:16:51.648-05:002010-04-26T11:16:51.648-05:00@Tsuki
As I said in the post, how you value trink...@Tsuki<br /><br />As I said in the post, how you value trinkets depends significantly on what hear you have. Haste is a much more volitle stat then crit. If you have high spell power and low haste, then haste will have significant value. The more haste you have the less valueable it is. <br /><br />That is why DFO is good for a lot of people. They've held down their haste and favored Crit.<br /><br />@Duskstorm<br /><br />As I said in the post I realized that not everyone has been lucky enough to get either of those trinkets. However, I had to use something for the post. If you want to use something else, then feel free to do so.<br /><br />That said, I think you easily 10man sarth 0d at this point. You might even be able to 5man it. As for Reign, ToC should be fine with alts as well.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-23491423736752471162010-04-26T10:10:10.854-05:002010-04-26T10:10:10.854-05:00I don't consider IotDS or RotU "base"...I don't consider IotDS or RotU "base" trinkets. It's much easier to get your hands on Muradin's spyglass, even if you personally have had bad luck.<br /><br />This is all based on my server, but<br /><br />IotDS<br />1. You'll only see real pugs for this when it's the weekly. Other than that, either find a bunch of friends and start one or you're SoL.<br /><br />2. When the IotDS DOES drop, you're going to roll against people. That's a big reason why they're there! I've tried to go after it, but when I did, I faced off against 10 casters every time. And no one does MS/OS rolls for Sarth, so you're often competing against alt specs.<br /><br />RotU:<br /><br />1. There are pugs for ToC, but many, dare I say most, fail. The best players are bringing their alts, and many, many people are either clueless or watching television expecting to get carried.<br /><br />2. See #2 above. People are somewhat better about doing MS/OS rolls, though. Still, when it does drop, there's tons of competition.<br /><br />I've been fortunate enough to actually win the spyglass, so that other trinket slot is really something I tend to change out situationally.<br /><br />Sometimes I use the nevermelting ice crystal. Yes, on paper, it sucks, but there's a use for it. On putricide, I save the on-use for p3 to quickly "guarantee" that I proc lunar eclipse right when heroism/bloodlust gets called out. It's basically a free near-instant eclipse proc and it does have situational use.<br /><br />On fights where I often need to off-heal, I'll go with the sliver of pure ice. I don't like using mana pots (I prefer haste pots for damage), and it's nice to get a bit of mana back if I have to switch out to caster form.<br /><br />In reality, though, if I knew of a consistent group running toc25, I'd probably grind the RotU. I've never felt great about my 2nd trinket :(<br /><br />I bet the new ruby sanctum boss will throw me a bone, though.Duskstormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82185790860031192772010-04-26T10:09:59.986-05:002010-04-26T10:09:59.986-05:00I don't consider IotDS or RotU "base"...I don't consider IotDS or RotU "base" trinkets. It's much easier to get your hands on Muradin's spyglass, even if you personally have had bad luck.<br /><br />This is all based on my server, but<br /><br />IotDS<br />1. You'll only see real pugs for this when it's the weekly. Other than that, either find a bunch of friends and start one or you're SoL.<br /><br />2. When the IotDS DOES drop, you're going to roll against people. That's a big reason why they're there! I've tried to go after it, but when I did, I faced off against 10 casters every time. And no one does MS/OS rolls for Sarth, so you're often competing against alt specs.<br /><br />RotU:<br /><br />1. There are pugs for ToC, but many, dare I say most, fail. The best players are bringing their alts, and many, many people are either clueless or watching television expecting to get carried.<br /><br />2. See #2 above. People are somewhat better about doing MS/OS rolls, though. Still, when it does drop, there's tons of competition.<br /><br />I've been fortunate enough to actually win the spyglass, so that other trinket slot is really something I tend to change out situationally.<br /><br />Sometimes I use the nevermelting ice crystal. Yes, on paper, it sucks, but there's a use for it. On putricide, I save the on-use for p3 to quickly "guarantee" that I proc lunar eclipse right when heroism/bloodlust gets called out. It's basically a free near-instant eclipse proc and it does have situational use.<br /><br />On fights where I often need to off-heal, I'll go with the sliver of pure ice. I don't like using mana pots (I prefer haste pots for damage), and it's nice to get a bit of mana back if I have to switch out to caster form.<br /><br />In reality, though, if I knew of a consistent group running toc25, I'd probably grind the RotU. I've never felt great about my 2nd trinket :(<br /><br />I bet the new ruby sanctum boss will throw me a bone, though.Duskstormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-89971512959155987772010-04-26T04:37:22.380-05:002010-04-26T04:37:22.380-05:00It's been well documented that the ICD on both...It's been well documented that the ICD on both Phylactery trinkets is 100 seconds, not 90.Draugirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-5794212589636764012010-04-26T03:56:11.144-05:002010-04-26T03:56:11.144-05:00"The process on Reign drops a lot on value ov..."The process on Reign drops a lot on value over 400 haste. With 2 second starfires we get a pillar every 6 seconds. With 1.9 sec starfires we get a pillar every 11.4 seconds. That puts the proc at half it's value once we get more haste (and we do)."<br /><br />You are wrong with that, because you forget Wrath. I must not calculate with Starfire only because every critical strike counts. Wrath, Moonfire, Starfall, even Hurricane.<br />So you get your counts way more often.<br /><br />greetings<br />Nightedahs @Khaz'Goroth(EU)Nightedahsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-70321066854616122692010-04-26T03:36:47.006-05:002010-04-26T03:36:47.006-05:00Alright, so what I have done here is to plot my ow...Alright, so what I have done here is to plot my own numbers into Wrath Calcs. WC does not have an option to take DFO into account, so I have had to use the average numbers posted on WoWhead for DFO. These numbers estimate the average SP gain with DFO depending on how long it takes to proc the trinket after the iCD is up:<br /><br />580 Uptime SP * ( 20 sec uptime/50 sec till proc)=232 SP<br />580 Uptime SP * ( 20 sec uptime/60 sec till proc)=193 SP<br />580 Uptime SP * ( 20 sec uptime/70 sec till proc)=165 SP<br /><br />Lets go by 60 seconds - that gives you a stunning 15 seconds to proc DFO after the iCD is up, and even that feels a bit off. Average spell power is then 193, which I add to my spell power value in WC. This puts my DPS, according to WC, at 11.573 DPS.<br /><br />Now, removing the SP and haste I gain from DFO, and adding SP and proc from Reign (WC can do this), I run the numbers again and get 11.615 DPS.<br /><br />This is obviously a bit.. alarming or annoying if you will. But remember that I gave the trinket 15 seconds to proc after the iCD is up. If it takes a mere 5 seconds (10% procrate, 5 seconds, probably a 30-50% chance that it has procced), my DPS with DFO goes up to 11.652.<br /><br />So it really matters a little bit how long time it takes you to proc DFO again after the iCD is up. If it takes you 15 seconds, your DPS will be slightly lower than Reign. If it takes you 5 seconds, you will be slightly higher than Reign.<br /><br />The biggest turn point, however, is the argument that you can use DFO smartly. You will gain a lot more from DFO's spell power if you use your abilities wisely - starfall when DFO is halfway done will do a lot more damage than with the constant DPS from Reign.<br /><br />Still, im suprised that they are so close. On one hand, Reign proc becomes very bad for starfires as soon as we have 1,9 second starfires. It suddenly takes us 11,4 seconds to fire a flame rather than 6 seconds if we had 2 second starfires. But, on the other hand, as we get more crit, I suppose wrath will crit more often and we will most likely get a mote each 2-3 seconds when spamming wrath.<br /><br />Curriously enough, if I pull myself into SimCraft, i get 10.082 DPS with my current armory items, and if I switch DFO to Reign, it gives me 10.081 DPS. Now aint that something? :PQiethhttp://www.qieths-quips.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-90557526944980819462010-04-25T22:40:00.806-05:002010-04-25T22:40:00.806-05:00I'd win the lottery before I'd see either ...I'd win the lottery before I'd see either baseline trinket, thanks for the info.Lakinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04668120666561210976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82595221611068303572010-04-25T20:31:31.707-05:002010-04-25T20:31:31.707-05:00Allow me to try some stupid math here: (the math I...Allow me to try some stupid math here: (the math I'm capable off and how I approach it)<br /><br />Reign has 150 spell power. The lowest average spell power gain from DFO (if it takes some 25 seconds to process after the ICD is up) wS calculated to 165 (and seems unrealistic - it doesn't take that long). For the sake of the argument let's keep it at that. That gives DFO a lead on Reign.<br /><br />The process on Reign drops a lot on value over 400 haste. With 2 second starfires we get a pillar every 6 seconds. With 1.9 sec starfires we get a pillar every 11.4 seconds. That puts the proc at half it's value once we get more haste (and we do). 155 haste on DFO normal is ~215 Dps on it's own (haste value taken from WC). Add the avg spell power and DFO does some 540 DPS.<br /><br />The SP from Reign normal is about 290 DPS (again, value taken fr WC). That means that a pillars coming from Reign - which is severely crippled half the time - has to account got 250 DPS to ce out even with DFO.<br /><br />Does anyone follow my logic? Will try and run Simcraft tomorrow, but it just doesn't seem right to me.QiethHttp://www.qieths-quips.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-67580637735602125172010-04-25T17:12:36.902-05:002010-04-25T17:12:36.902-05:00I agree that post both softcaps haste is stronger ...I agree that post both softcaps haste is stronger than crit but only until a certain point. I have 660 haste and about 1060 crit without idol. Equipping DFO would put me over 800 haste what is way to much. Wrath and the DoTs are so fast that I even get problems with spellqueing which causes DPS loss again. Having more crit insteas pushes Reign of Unliving and keeps Nature's Grace by 90% uptime. Also Starfall takes more profit out of crit and in a Lichking fight where it does about 20% of my total damage (Vile Spirits) this must be considered. <br /><br />greetings<br />Nightedahs @Khaz'Goroth(EU)Nightedahsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-21405853660321740372010-04-25T16:55:34.646-05:002010-04-25T16:55:34.646-05:00Once you're past both the haste and critt cap,...Once you're past both the haste and critt cap, as most of us with mostly icc10/25 gear would be, haste is again stronger then critt. <br />and the ICD for DFO is only half of that of the PNL, as is the effective (avrage) sp for the duration.<br />The DFO does give slightly more haste then the PNL gives critt. <br /><br />That alll taken intoaccount makes sence to me. <br /><br />Simmilar SP from the proccs. <br />Haste amount on DFO > critt amount on PNL<br />Haste > Critt at high lvl gear. (past both caps)<br /><br />So under those cistcumstances:<br />DFO > PNLUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16812913277311921020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-65216344539357623782010-04-25T16:26:34.727-05:002010-04-25T16:26:34.727-05:00I have yet to see reign drop in any of my ToC 25s,...I have yet to see reign drop in any of my ToC 25s, so I've stopped trying - seen the DFO 2 out of 3 times in 25 man ICC and I'm very high on my guild's DKP charts so my odds of getting it are very good if it drops again.Voinknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-82584386377937724302010-04-25T15:06:53.768-05:002010-04-25T15:06:53.768-05:00Yeah, I don't understand either. Given that a)...Yeah, I don't understand either. Given that a) past the soft haste cap crit > haste per point, b) the Phylactery's proc is stronger for giving 1k+ SP upfront and not gradually and c) the internal cooldown seems to be the same, PNL should be ahead in any calculation for ToC levels of gear and beyond.<br /><br />Maybe it has to do with it proccing from DoTs, hence lowering the uptime.<br /><br />Mind shedding some light here, Graylo?Tsukihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08721707509714403959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-44388490700690057662010-04-25T13:08:39.180-05:002010-04-25T13:08:39.180-05:00for me the best trinkets are
Phylactery of the Na...for me the best trinkets are<br /><br />Phylactery of the Nameless Lich (H)<br />Phylactery of the Nameless Lich<br />Reign of the Unliving (H)<br />Disloged Foreign Object (H)<br />Reign of the Unliving<br />Disloged Foreign Object<br /><br />I really wonder why the object is so high in your list...<br /><br />greetings<br />Nightedahs @Khaz'Goroth(EU)Nightedahsnoreply@blogger.com