tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post7117970226589033787..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: A Second Look at Call to ArmsGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-59383184645485106562011-05-03T19:59:52.240-05:002011-05-03T19:59:52.240-05:00Totally disagree with your assertion that gold wil...Totally disagree with your assertion that gold will be the carrot.<br /><br />I think Allison has a valid point about the types of tanks there are and who will and will not actually use the CTA incentives.<br /><br />Firstly... As an X-Raid Pro tank, and now strictly Guild Pro tank, I will not stop guild runs in instances for a lame critter/mount or more gold. The guild rewards are far more rewarding... I would rather work on guild XP with my guild over working with complete random yahoos in very difficult dungeon settings (4.1 random heroics). The 'gold' factor would need to be insurmountable. I can make 400G an hour just sitting in a corner in some remote part of the game world right now. With the probability of attaining a high value epic.<br /><br />Secondly... It is a major pain to run with random peeps. "I" know the dungeons, because I've had massive amounts of repetitive experience. However, most dps, some healers, either don't care, or don't know how to run Cata dungeons. So the whole mess falls on 1 class type, the tank. In my experience, pro tanks would much rather sit in the que for 30 minutes like everyone else, and wait... "IF" I needed a specific item from a dungeon still, then possibly I may que as a tank so I could call dibs on it, but this doesn't always work.... Ninja's beget ninja attitudes. So when a 'dps-tank', rolls on a tank item, why shouldn't I.<br /><br />I think there is still a huge disconnect with what Blizz 'thinks' we want, and what is reality in the game. If I'm going to be an air traffic controller for WOW, making sure things dont go down in flames, then we need significant, and I mean significant rewards. <br /><br />I'd recommend that the bag drops with the random 'fluff' item that no one really cares about... But that there is also a "random chance" that the end boss with drop a CTA class appropriate Gear Emblem from a 10 man Cata raid boss that is BOP "Only" for the player that met the CTA requirements. Make that occurrence rare... Like a 1% chance. This way I have a much better carrot to chase after.<br /><br />We run random dungeons to gain tokens for gear. It makes sense that 'if' you want more tanks to que, the carrot needs to be significant for them to do so.<br /><br />PS... I've gotten 9 white critters in a row so far and I am not queing anymore. Its a complete waste of my time as it stands now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-73993643119853113622011-04-28T09:31:50.514-05:002011-04-28T09:31:50.514-05:00The reason for a shortage of tanks IS that they an...The reason for a shortage of tanks IS that they and they alone are EXPECTED to carry the 5-man. My Misha pally was Prot from 1-85 and in the handful of PuGs I tried, it was ALWAYS expected of me to make all the decisions even though I told all I was a casual player and not STUDYING for each instance. The bitching and whining about my NOT being willing to shoulder carrying the instance finally did me in. I dumped all my gear and went Ret just to get away from being messaged "Want to do a random heroic?" and still be able to complete my dailies without having to do so in my Holy spec.Alan Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00669565332075044743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-76362555671751351012011-04-26T10:47:10.083-05:002011-04-26T10:47:10.083-05:00@Anon3/5
Regarding PUG raid tanks:
Honestly I th...@Anon3/5<br /><br />Regarding PUG raid tanks:<br /><br />Honestly I think you are grasping at straws. PUG raids fill up on tanks first for a very simple reason that has nothing to do with demand for raids. I think all of us would agree that the tank is the most important role in the raid. A bad DPS sucks but can be ignored most of the time. Even a bad healer can be over come, but a bad tank means that the raid goes nowhere for sure. So, successful pug organizers try and fill the tank slots with known players. Once they have that it isn't to hard to find 7 healers and 15 DPS willing to fill the other slots. The same thing happend with 5mans before LFD.<br /><br />I completely agree that tanks are more interested in tanking pug raids then 5mans, but they are not special in that regard. DPS are more intersted in DPS pug raids as well.<br /><br />Now if they created a raid version for the LFD, do you think there would an abundance of tanks? I am positive there wouldn't be. Groups would still form up with the DPS slots full looking for a tanks and maybe healers. <br /><br />Regarding the rest of you comment I've addressed several times. There's no point in me doing it again.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-45474013518722143732011-04-26T02:07:49.485-05:002011-04-26T02:07:49.485-05:00There is also the possibility that people don'...There is also the possibility that people don't start to create a PuG raid if they don't have a tank. Back in pre-LFD days I only tried to form a 5 man group when I had a tank. Without a tank the best chance was to put yourself alone in the LFG browser.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48814521910654789992011-04-25T22:12:23.431-05:002011-04-25T22:12:23.431-05:00Graylo says:
"Since my entire post was about...Graylo says:<br /><br />"Since my entire post was about the Call to Arms I thought it was obvious that I was talking about 5mans rather then raids."<br /><br />I think it would be helpful to explain why I (Anon #3) and others have brought up raids in a discussion about 5 man dungeons. It's not that we're trying to change the topic but, rather, because role representation in raids can help to inform us about the actual population of those roles.<br /><br />For example, pug raids often fill the tank spots first but LFD often fills the tank spots last. This difference is interesting -- it suggests that tanks are more interested in tanking pug raids than they are in tanking in LFD. Based on my own experience and what other tanks have told me, this difference is best explained in terms of motivation (ie, there isn't a shortage of tanks; there is a shortage of tanks willing to do LFD).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-46023060686906965372011-04-25T12:53:16.069-05:002011-04-25T12:53:16.069-05:00Kind of a rhetorical question / post but yeah I st...Kind of a rhetorical question / post but yeah I still don't think that is the reason. <br /><br />I am more inclined to believe that Blizzard is just peeling out the same content over and over for the same reason they reused naxx in lore and WOTLK. The quote was more or less "....we spent millions developing naxx and dont think that enough players saw the content to merit us spending more money on developing more content..." keep in mind I am massively paraphrasing but the general message is there. I am almost positive they feel this same way about other content as well regardless of how long accounts have been active. <br /><br />I just feel as if capitalism is taking a little too much of a hold in Blizzards judgment as to when to let go of old content. There are instances that are nearly the same as well as just revamped instances that are the exact same. I just feel as if they are running out of ideas. <br /><br />I love wow. I just want to see it be a timeless game instead of recycling content with a few lore changes / explanations and wow can achieve that through fresh ideas. <br /><br />I thought the argent tourny was a great idea (the dailies not the instance) and I thought whatever team put together the ulduar instances and the utgarde instances did a great job. That is very original stuff there. I would hate to see that sort of talent go to waste as some developer just spew out "let's redo ony AGAIN" and be taken seriously which is not too far off imo.<br /><br />~Fin~Volunsteer - Shadowmoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-35386326647514015212011-04-25T07:33:28.651-05:002011-04-25T07:33:28.651-05:00> Why oh why in god's name are they recycli...> Why oh why in god's name are they recycling EVERY bit of<br />> old content they can get a twisted developer to revamp?<br />> It is bad enough that the instances we suffered through<br />> we "Progression" at the time and now they are being<br />> remade and pushed on loyal WOW fans as current content.<br /><br />Probably because player who already progressed through those instances are no longer the target audience for Blizzard.<br /><br />Only Blizzard knows how many accounts from vanilla are still active. Might be less then what we assume.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-61660658945552074482011-04-25T06:06:13.548-05:002011-04-25T06:06:13.548-05:00Since I don't know where to start and I only k...Since I don't know where to start and I only know that I want it to stop, I will start here and hopefully end up somewhere with a blue post response that is either about to ban my account or change for the good of the land. Why oh why in god's name are they recycling EVERY bit of old content they can get a twisted developer to revamp? It is bad enough that the instances we suffered through we "Progression" at the time and now they are being remade and pushed on loyal WOW fans as current content. I don't like it and do not look forward to the days of re-running Kara, SC, and hell we may as well just go back in to ICC and kill LK again.<br /><br />I cannot begin to describe how pathetic it is that we will soon be back in Nax killing undead yet again.....Volunsteer - Shadowmoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-35974781154799485202011-04-22T11:35:42.125-05:002011-04-22T11:35:42.125-05:00I have 2 "main" toons one dk tank and on...I have 2 "main" toons one dk tank and one shammy healer. I enjoy both ROLES equally, what I don't enjoy is the abuse from overeager dps when I queue as a tank. As a tank, my greatest joys is a properly marked, cc'd and clean pull. Its a hallmark of good communication, teamwork and skill, one of the reasons to play an MMO. If I cannot get a group of at least 2 more guildies or friends to ensure that true asshats can be removed, I just won't tank a 5 man. Abuse from pugs just isn't worth it. And it's not like I'm being verbally assaulted with death threats, but the gogogo and OMG this isnt hard lol who needs CC!?!?!? just beat you down. I dont mind blowing every cooldown to save the occasional bad pull, that is fun. But when its every pull, it turns an exciting OH S... moment into just S...<br /><br />This is the kind of thing that keeps me from tanking a pug 5 man. I'll just go farm the old dungeons for the mounts, sell the drops/mats I pick up and make enough money to pay for the flasks that may have dropped out of the satchel.<br /><br />Sorry for the rambling post. <br /><br />have a great day.Thromeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48845705182034288932011-04-22T08:42:56.397-05:002011-04-22T08:42:56.397-05:00@Moxnix & Ngita
Since my entire post was abou...@Moxnix & Ngita<br /><br />Since my entire post was about the Call to Arms I thought it was obvious that I was talking about 5mans rather then raids. With that in mind I hope you now see how irreleveant it is to talk about the fact that you couldn't pug a raid as a tank in WotLK or about how a guild raid says "Sorry, full tanks." You may be correct that there are not enough tank slots in raids to fit the demand, (though my bet is that there are not enough tank slots in the guilds you want to be in) even if that's true that doesn't mean there aren't a shortage of tanks for 5 mans.<br /><br />Moxnix, you said it yourself "<i>Many experienced competent tanks aren't happy about how everyone constantly pesters us to run them, their alts, their friends and their friends alts through content we neither needs nor want to run (5 mans, 10 man BH, etc.)... After a while you just get fed up stop tanking anything unless you actually need it yourself.</i>"<br /><br />That is by definition a shortage of tanks if the damand for tanks is greater then the supply which you seem to agree in your comments dispite saying you don't in the first sentance.<br /><br />Ngita, you can give me one example of where you had an over abundance of tanks and say I'm wrong if you want, but remember this. Your group still formed pretty almost instantly. Maybe your guild is the exception to the rule, where everyone wants to tank and no one wants to DPS. However, even if that is the case, I'm sure that for every one example you can give me where you had 3 tanks and 2 healers looking for a random, I can give you 10 examples DPS looking for a random but having to wait 20 minutes for the tank to finish his dailys, of DPS having to stop what they are doing immediately if they want get in a group, of tanks saying they will only do a random if then can DPS or heal it.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-69918049802260025402011-04-21T20:15:00.612-05:002011-04-21T20:15:00.612-05:00Any guild tank can post “LF 3 DPS and 1 healer for...Any guild tank can post “LF 3 DPS and 1 healer for random” in gchat and fill a group almost instantly.<br /><br />About a week ago a healer I said lf random in guild chat, we ended up with 3 tanks and 2 healers, I ran as dps in the end.Ngitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526961657299848611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-48501780865976013912011-04-21T20:10:55.087-05:002011-04-21T20:10:55.087-05:00“There isn't a shortage of tanks. There is a s...“There isn't a shortage of tanks. There is a shortage of tanks willing to tank PuGs.” This is an absolutely absurd comment and anyone who believes it is an idiot.<br /><br />Thanks, I do . Wotlk? the hardest spot to get into for pug raids? Tank. Cata, the hardest spot to get into pug bh? Suprise tank, I have 356 alt tank and end up as dps half the time in BH because the tank spot is filled. As a raid guild we have about 8 alt tanks, 4 of them good enough to tank raids, ever bothered to read the posts about how hard it is to get into a raid guild as a tank?, Generally our 5 man heroics if they are short, end up being short a dps. Oh btw how many pug lfd heroics have I tanked? 2, If I cant tank a guild heroic and thats about 3/4 of the time I just dont run that day.(1 valor upgrade left, 1 heroic upgrade left)Ngitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526961657299848611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-71870755325388519322011-04-21T17:33:06.780-05:002011-04-21T17:33:06.780-05:00"Probably the most outrageous comment I saw i..."Probably the most outrageous comment I saw in Allison’s post was in her second post when she quoted “There isn't a shortage of tanks. There is a shortage of tanks willing to tank PuGs.” This is an absolutely absurd comment and anyone who believes it is an idiot."<br /><br />I disagree with you on this and agree with the poster you're referring to. She nailed it, "There isn't a shortage of tanks, there's a shortage of tanks willing to tank PuGs."<br /><br />There are many reasons but probably the biggest reason and one many tend to either forget or disregard out of hand is the disparity between the number of tanks required for 5 mans and the number of tanks required for raids (particularly 25 mans). Many experienced competent tanks aren't happy about how everyone constantly pesters us to run them, their alts, their friends and their friends alts through content we neither needs nor want to run (5 mans, 10 man BH, etc.), yet went it comes to raid content the tank actually wants to run (especially 25s), it's "Sorry full tanks". After a while you just get fed up stop tanking anything unless you actually need it yourself.<br /><br />Another (IMO better) way of phrasing the issue is this. There isn't a shortage of tanks, there's a shortage of tanking spots in advanced content. <br /><br />Until that problem is addressed there will always be a shortage of tanks willing to run lesser content.Moxnixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-70110368559971015012011-04-21T12:45:34.719-05:002011-04-21T12:45:34.719-05:00I used to main tank for my guild back in TBC and I...I used to main tank for my guild back in TBC and I have to say tanking was a blast on my warrior. However, When it came time to learning fights and reading strategies and doing dungeons for other guild member's alts (or mains) left me little incentive to go with pugs. I think the same thing as well is happening. Again, how many tanks are needed inside a guild? how many DPS? And when are the DPS all coming on? even in my own guild I would rarely find the best time to go with a tank for a heroic. They're not always willing to go. I'm not always there and they're not going to wait for a full group of our members before starting. So even in a GUILD it's not guaranteed you'll get a heroic, let alone if you're not in one...<br /><br />I gave the suggestion that DPS could get extra valor points (while the tanks/heals still get the reward for money/flasks/whatever) Because if a DPS has to wait twice, or even three times as long as the tank or healer, I don't think it'd be unfair to get that many more valor. <br /><br />Remember that you also don't have to do it every day now, and it can be done over the week, so perhaps having 1/3 of the cap or 1/4 of the cap each time you do a heroic as DPS. The tank could still do two heroics, get two rewards in the same amount of time. And the DPS get's something out of it as well at least. I know you're technically not getting any loot faster but I think implementing both might give faster queues and something extra for the dps (because I really don't think 45 minute queues are going to suddenly drop to 10 minute queues)<br /><br />In the end you'll (hopefully) get more tanks to run and the dps won't need to queue as often (which honestly I think would impact the most).Duncannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-57045789673239817322011-04-21T10:51:34.698-05:002011-04-21T10:51:34.698-05:00@Lancore
You have a point but I think your exagge...@Lancore<br /><br />You have a point but I think your exaggerating it. I do think this would increase the overall gold supply in the economy and that would probably cause some inflation, but I don't think it would constitute a "flood" of new gold in the market or have a significant impact on the economy.<br /><br />First, giving a tank 500g for doing an instance doesn't necessarily increase the gold supply by 500g. What would that tank have done otherwise? If it's anything gold related like daily quests, farming, or leveling an alt then it's not a net 500g gain because of the opportunity cost of running the instance.<br /><br />Second, Call to Arms doesn't have to be a consistent source of funds. Blizzard has already said that there won't always be a Call to Arms role if they think things are currently balanced. Given all the other ways people create gold in WoW, I agree with Klepto that Call to Arms bonuses would likely be a drop in the bucket even at 500g when compared to the economy as a whole.<br /><br />Third, there is no reason why they couldn't tier the payments. Maybe offer 500g if the queue is 40 minutes long, 200g if its 20 minutes long, and 0g if it's just 5 minutes long. This would prevent a rapid influx of tanks dramatically increasing the gold supply.<br /><br />@Lancore2<br /><br />You’re ignoring the other benefits of running an instance, and the problems with other sources of gold. Many of the dailies are on TB and have a PvP aspect that is unattractive to some people. Farming is inconsistent, boring and requires you to use the AH or trade chat. On the other had instancing offers other rewards like VP, Rep, and maybe gear. Choosing another gold making option doesn’t necessarily mean they are short sighted. It may mean they have different goals, values, or abilities then you do.<br /><br />@Ramfell<br /><br />Yes, many tanks currently refused to use the LFD tool with out a guild group. I’ve never said otherwise. But you, and other tanks like you, fail to realize why this choice is even possible for you, or to understand what would happen if it wasn’t possible.<br /><br />The reason you don’t use the LFD tool isn’t because you don’t want to deal with the assholes out there. It’s because you don’t need to deal with the assholes out there. Any guild tank can post “LF 3 DPS and 1 healer for random” in gchat and fill a group almost instantly. As a tank you have to opportunity to choose group because your services are in high demand.<br /><br />Believe me, we DPS envy your position of power. We don’t want to deal with the prima donna tanks out there that think it’s ok to chain pull trash when the healers mana is at 25%, who refuse to use cooldowns, who refuse to use a proper rotation, or who refuse mark a kill order, and then have nerve to bitch about dying or someone pulling agro off them. We don’t find that to be fun anymore then you do, but we don’t have a choice if we want to run the instance and we can’t find a guild tank that is interested.<br /><br />So let me ask you this. What would happen if all of a sudden the situation was reversed and there was a DPS shortage and you really wanted to run Zul’Aman for some tank gear. Would you still refuse to use the LFD tool for anything but a guild group? I doubt, because your human just like the rest of us DPS.<br /><br />@Dimensional<br /><br />Nice write up.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-4041770064073268412011-04-21T10:51:07.676-05:002011-04-21T10:51:07.676-05:00@Ohken
First, fast queues only work as an incenti...@Ohken<br /><br />First, fast queues only work as an incentive if you already want to run an instance. Second, the Satchel of Exotic Mysteries is an effort to get tanks to solo queue rather then group queue.<br /><br />@Anon3<br /><br />First, by the simple fact that I'm talking about the Call to Arms you should assume that I am not talking about raid tanks. No where in my post or the posts by other people I liked does anyone talk about a raid tanking shortage.<br /><br />Second, there are always exceptions to the rule and your guild may be that exception. However, let me ask you this. What happens when a tank asks for a random in Gchat? In my experience the same thing always happens. DPS are tripping over themselves to whisper the tank first to get in the group. It's rare when the tank doesn't fill the group, and usually on has 1 or two spots open.<br /><br />Now what happens when a DPS asks for a random in gchat? In my experience some times they get lucky and a tank is also thinking about a run and a group forms quickly. Most of the time, they whisper the tanks online first to see if their interested and only try and form a group after they've secured a tank, and there are times that a group doesn't form at all.<br /><br />A tank shortage doesn't mean that DPS can never form a group. it just means that it's easier for tank to form a group then it is for the other roles. If it's easier for a tank to form a group in your guild then it is for a DPS then that is evidence of a tank shortage. <br /><br />Now, my personal experience is not superior to yours. So maybe I'm wrong, but when I read the forums and such I see a lot more people having my situation then I see having yours.<br /><br />Third, I didn't call anyone a name. I said if you think there isn't a tank shortage your an idiot, much the same way as I would say that if you think the earth is flat your an idiot.<br /><br />@Convertible<br /><br />I like that idea. It wouldn't encourage anyone to tank, but it would remove a barrier which would be helpful.<br /><br />@Anon4<br /><br />No, if a tank solo queues that doesn't mean that the group dies, it means that the group has to wait. If they aren't willing to wait then they obviously don't really need the instance.<br /><br />The rest of your argument is just gibberish. In short, your saying the tank should make less money then he's worth so that the rest of the party can make more money then they are worth. That economic model has been tried multiple times around the world and has failed consistently in very public ways.<br /><br />@Gevlon<br /><br />I agree that it has to be a lot, and I doubt blizzard is willing to put 500g or even 200g in those bags.<br /><br />That said the amount given doesn't necessarily have to competitive with alternative gold activities. That is only true if you are trying to get someone to tank who wouldn't tank otherwise.<br /><br />However, there are tanks that want to run instances because they need the VP, or Rep, or maybe gear. The goal of the Satchel for these people isn't to get them to tank, but to get them to solo queue. My guess is that amount is smaller then 500g, but I also think it's probably relatively high compared to the traditional rewards offered by blizzard.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-6675111341367747152011-04-21T10:43:48.361-05:002011-04-21T10:43:48.361-05:00I've been thinking the same about Call to Arms...I've been thinking the same about Call to Arms. While we might have more tanks queuing for heroics in LFD rather than just doing 1 a day with guild groups, we might also have a lot more DPS using the system again. Overall we might see a small increase in tanks, but I don't think we'll see much more than 5 minutes off of our queue times. :(<br /><br />Here's to hoping I guess.Bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13952650257840862121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27655789891197831822011-04-21T10:24:18.004-05:002011-04-21T10:24:18.004-05:00This is Myraxa. As a "professional" tank...This is Myraxa. As a "professional" tank, the main reason I don't tank pugs is because I don't need anything.<br /><br />The combination of the bag and VP for Conquest exchange will change that, but I'm still doing it because I need the points, not because I think tanking 5 man heroics that I've done 40 times already is "fun."GamingLiferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02195336931104729563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-67298948563652043382011-04-21T10:02:49.065-05:002011-04-21T10:02:49.065-05:00Well, I have an engineering background but I have ...Well, I have an engineering background but I have learned some economics and it is also my opinion that Call to Arms will succeed at bringing down queue times for DPS, and this is why I think it will:<br /><br />- The problem: the relative population of active tanks is lower than the relative LFD demand for them (which is fixed at 20%). In order to increase the supply of tanks or decrease the supply of DPS (in both cases _relative_ supply of tanks increases) up to 20%, there must be some incentive to tanks or disincentive for DPS, that is, some "incentive gap" between tanks and DPS<br /><br />- Currently, that incentive gap is provided by the difference in queue times. Increased queue times discourage some DPS and encourage tanking dungeons relative to waiting 30-40 min. For example, I (moonkin mainspec) queue as dps/healer (read: healer) just because of reduced queue times (I also enjoy healing a lot, though not as much as nuking things). The same happened when I leveled my (now fresh 85) DK, I tanked because this way I could run more dungeons.<br /><br />- What adds Call to Arms? Let's add some math to clarify our understanding. Suppose we need an incentive gap IG, which is a constant determined only by the preferences of people and the "1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps" constraint, in order for people to play enough tanks. Suppose that a difference in queue times T produces an incentive q(T), where q(x) is continuous and monotonically increasing on x. Without Call to Arms, queue times are determined by the equation:<br /><br />IG = q(T) (1)<br /><br />thus T = q⁻¹(IG)<br /><br />Suppose that adding CtA rewards gives an incentive of R; then, the equilibrium condition (1) is now<br /><br />IG = q(T*) + R<br /><br />where T* is waiting time when we add CtA. Then, T* is now <br /><br />T* = q⁻¹(IG - R)<br /><br />Since q(x) is monotonically increasing on x, q⁻¹(y) is also monotonically increasing on y. Thus we can conclude that<br /><br />IG - R < IG (since R > 0)<br /><br />implies<br /><br />q⁻¹(IG - R) < q⁻¹(IG)<br /><br />which is the same thing as:<br /><br />T* < T<br /><br />Therefore, reasonable assumptions lead us to conclude that CtA does, in fact, lower queue times. We can't say how much does it get reduced because that depends on the shape of q() and the magnitude of R, but I think it is likely that DPS will have shorter queues.<br /><br />Another conclusion is that it will lead to more dungeoneering (at least in the short run, not clear in the long run because people will gear up faster), because both tanks (because of the bag of goodies) and DPS (because of shorter queue times) will have their incentives increased.Dimensionalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-18057566501308212862011-04-21T09:06:14.817-05:002011-04-21T09:06:14.817-05:00The majority of tanks I know (including myself) do...The majority of tanks I know (including myself) don't tank PuG's be cause of the asshat DPS. So I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your assumption there.<br /><br />We have 5 tanks in our guild and not a single one will use LFD. 30% of the DPS that I have encountered in PuG's to put it bluntly are either completely useless or an asshat. <br /><br />That is why there is a shortage of tanks. I will only use LFD with a guild group.Ramfellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-25954158155346658582011-04-21T08:18:22.651-05:002011-04-21T08:18:22.651-05:00I wouldn't call 500g really that great. You co...I wouldn't call 500g really that great. You could generate more in probably less time through dailies, without having to deal with those lfg morons<br /><br />But I guess it would be enough to attract short sighted players who are lacking some common sense (doubt you want them as tanks though)lancorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13324369460660785029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-83588578941048916522011-04-21T06:49:50.866-05:002011-04-21T06:49:50.866-05:00@lancore:
Inflation really wouldn't be a prob...@lancore:<br /><br />Inflation really wouldn't be a problem regarding motivation. <br /><br />1) The increase in inflation wouldn't be that big. Suppose that the Call to Arms reward were 500g. If a tank does the random instead of 500g of dailies, there's no final increase in the gold supply. Even if it pulls in a completely new person, so that this really is a 500g increase in the gold supply, think about how much gold everyone on the server collectively owns-from the AH tycoons to the level 1 in the starting zone. The amount of Call to Arms rewards will be a drop in the bucket compared to that collective wealth.<br /><br />2) Tanks still enjoy an increase in real spending power. Inflation cause a decrease in spending power across the whole population, but the Call to Arms benefits will be concentrated among the participating tanks- and those tanks will see a net increase in real income, which is exactly what we want to change behavior.Kleptonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-91478955467276248372011-04-21T05:05:29.660-05:002011-04-21T05:05:29.660-05:00I'd happily tank LFD randoms if it was as good...I'd happily tank LFD randoms if it was as good a way of supplying the gold I need for raiding and PvP as herbing, farming old raids, etc.<br /><br />I say that as a mainspec tankadin 2.3 -> Cata, rerolled feral druid, who is perfectly capable of bear tanking, but mostly doesn't because the mechanics make bear tanking about twice as much work as any other sort.Inquisitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13050970482949027836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-7621320732176840172011-04-21T03:57:51.173-05:002011-04-21T03:57:51.173-05:00You can't use Gold as motivator, at least not ...You can't use Gold as motivator, at least not in amounts that are interesting.<br />Since it's new generated gold it will heavily raise the inflation if you gain way more gold/hour then through other means like your dailies.<br />High gold per hour activities or offers like gevlons are only moving gold from player A to player B, no harm done here. Your suggestion however would flood the market with new gold, rendering it even more worthlesslancorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13324369460660785029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-88064569187771774272011-04-21T02:20:05.647-05:002011-04-21T02:20:05.647-05:00You're absolutely right, that Blizz should use...You're absolutely right, that Blizz should use gold as a simple incentive.<br />On my server a handful of tanks are already offering their services for a few hundred gold.<br />It's funny that anytime they post that in Trade a flamewar will ensue.<br /><br />If Blizz was offering a gold reward tanks would really have a viable alternative to doing daily quests and earning some gold.<br />(btw agree that it's easy to come by these days).<br /><br />@Ohken<br />Zero wait time is not a big issue.<br />What good is zero wait time if your group wipes several times due to incompetent players.Sargehttp://www.wickedweasel.com/noreply@blogger.com