tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post91526058496510609..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Fun W/ SimulationCraft: WotLK RotationsGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-7762967105217120482010-09-29T10:46:58.580-05:002010-09-29T10:46:58.580-05:00I've also noticed a discrepancy with dot dps. ...I've also noticed a discrepancy with dot dps. Dropping them both entirely out of the rotation (with mostly 264/245 gear) doesn't seem to drop DPS by a whole lot. Dropping just Insect Swarm and keeping Moonfire in with the moonfire and starfire glyphs actually raised my DPS significantly (about 28%). If you know everyone in your raid is hit-capped without the unglyphed IS debuff, dropping it entirely from talent picks also frees up points for other things like Owlkin Frenzy or mana regen. So am I missing something here? I'm wondering why everyone keeps suggesting rotations with both Moonfire and Insect Swarm when in practice I've found dropping Insect Swarm improved dps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-25466997274029799962010-09-09T19:07:29.288-05:002010-09-09T19:07:29.288-05:00I've noticed my DPS unaffected or slightly inc...I've noticed my DPS unaffected or slightly increased by skipping a dot (usually IS for solar) particularly during hero as long as it's up often enough for our relic. The slightly increased uptime on languish, OOC proc chances etc. seem to compensate for any potential loss of crit once you're mostly in 277 lvl gear. <br /><br />What this makes me wonder about with dots having decreased value is if it would be a DPS increase to drop a couple pts from IS and put it towards Owlkin Frenzy for H LK. I've noticed with 1 pt in OF it procs at least 7 times during the encounter. I'd mostly drop IS from my rotation (our tanks don't rely on it) and spam MF during movement and for the relic proc.<br /><br />Not that it probably matters much. We're talking about very slight differences in DPS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-32881650029121759562010-09-09T18:27:22.727-05:002010-09-09T18:27:22.727-05:00I think at the highest point in a moonkin raiding ...I think at the highest point in a moonkin raiding situation you would favor regularity over "higher" dps if the benefit is small. <br /> In my current rotation I cast MF and IS at the cast after their opposite eclipses. This rotation is the same always and lets me focus on game mechanics and maximizing cast time over the course of the fight. If some theory came up that promised 30 more dps if I dropped IS on every other rotation I probably would not switch to this rotation simply because it would add complexity with small gain.<br /> So this gain of 17 dps probably isn't worth changing what your doing.PPKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-31258702432654445082010-09-09T13:51:35.466-05:002010-09-09T13:51:35.466-05:00@Raysa
Thanks for pointing that out. However, it ...@Raysa<br /><br />Thanks for pointing that out. However, it was actually missing a | not a )&(. The | means "or" in SimulationCraft code, and the condition I want is Eclipse down or has more then 4 remaining.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-38282410327433444382010-09-09T13:33:41.498-05:002010-09-09T13:33:41.498-05:00you've got some mistakes in the last "rot...you've got some mistakes in the last "rotation". in both lines is a )&( missing. nearly got crazy. ^^Raysanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-53887345677920685262010-09-09T10:33:04.664-05:002010-09-09T10:33:04.664-05:00The thing is, 17 DPS is very small and you'd n...The thing is, 17 DPS is very small and you'd need a perfect rotation with a perfect environment to achieve that tiny gain.<br /><br />Add in a little movement, throw in some pushback damage, and suddenly your numbers are different. The 17 DPS will be even less noticeable in a real raid setting than in the simulation, if even existent.Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06613862220080538940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-28975725352653686002010-09-09T10:02:12.819-05:002010-09-09T10:02:12.819-05:00I feel like you've missed my point. I'm no...I feel like you've missed my point. I'm not disputing that the result isn't statistically significant (as you've pointed out many times) but that that doesn't mean it isn't significant to us.<br /><br />The changes you made weren't STATISTICALLY significant, but they're significant to us and our application. The article to me almost does away with the extra work you put because the result wasn't statistically significant; but an increase of even 17 is 17 more DPS than we would have without it.<br /><br />Keep the good posts coming.Zojunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-77517565013435576242010-09-09T09:49:43.964-05:002010-09-09T09:49:43.964-05:00Very good post !
I am currently thinking of testin...Very good post !<br />I am currently thinking of testing another setup :<br />- IS glyphed, MF unglyphed, both starfall glyphs<br />- while moving, renew IS + spam MF<br />- outside moving, cast one IS at the end of each lunar eclipse. Never cast MF outside moving.<br />The purpose of this setup is to slightly increase dps while moving,<br />slightly increase aoe power which might be usefull in HMs context.<br /><br />The problem with this rotation is that i will periodically loose the idol stacks, and i wonder if SimulationCraft takes this in consideration ?Farfalettehttp://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cho%27gall&n=Farfalettenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-28489066626166099092010-09-09T09:24:27.776-05:002010-09-09T09:24:27.776-05:00@Zojun
"Just remember in future to think abo...@Zojun<br /><br /><i>"Just remember in future to think about statistical significance and what it's actually telling you. Something that changes DPS by 17 maximum in a count of over 12,000 will never be "significant" at a normal level."</i><br /><br />I've already said several times that the results I saw when I tried to improve on the Skip Always strategy are probalby not statistically significant. I said it twice in the post and I've said it once in the comments. This is the fourth time I am saying that a 17 DPS change in a value over 12,000 is probably not statistically significant.<br /><br /><i>"If you did this over 1000 times, I assume they came in the same ranking every time. If so, this is enough evidence at such a high count (for such a low DPS difference) to employ the category listed highest."</i><br /><br />As I said in the post I did the simulatins with 10,000 iterations. And yes I did run them several times with similar results.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-87075085331995485312010-09-09T08:40:10.292-05:002010-09-09T08:40:10.292-05:00I also meant to add about your iterations.
If you...I also meant to add about your iterations.<br /><br />If you did this over 1000 times, I assume they came in the same ranking every time. If so, this is enough evidence at such a high count (for such a low DPS difference) to employ the category listed highest.Zojunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27860922872389967752010-09-09T08:35:14.560-05:002010-09-09T08:35:14.560-05:00Statistical significance is of course defined by a...Statistical significance is of course defined by a confidence interval. As you say, our DoTs are so weak that choosing correctly when to apply them is minor DPS gain, but still worth calculating. They're also so weak that achieving statistical significance may be nigh on impossible without applying a ridiculously restrictive CI.<br /><br />In this case, what might not be statistically significant (given the minority of any changes given our DoTs are so weak) is still significant in how we actually carry out our rotation, to try and squeeze out as much DPS as possible.<br /><br />This just reaffirms the notion that past a certain point during an Eclipse, it's just not worth even casting the DoT for the IFF effect; a fair number of us will be over the Lunar crit cap so the 3% is unneeded, and I remember reading on EJ that you need ~5/6 Wraths under IS to make it worthwhile casting that; the 4s number seems to confirm this. It's helped me put a firm number on DoT refreshes during Eclipse and for that, I thank you.<br /><br />Just remember in future to think about statistical significance and what it's actually telling you. Something that changes DPS by 17 maximum in a count of over 12,000 will never be "significant" at a normal level.Zojunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-22568656882108954332010-09-09T07:21:20.304-05:002010-09-09T07:21:20.304-05:00@Anon1
First, if my conclusions are just common s...@Anon1<br /><br />First, if my conclusions are just common sense and unimportant to you, then good for you. However, if you would like to understand the context of my post I suggest you re-read (or possibly read for the first time) the first paragraph and the Theory section.<br /><br />Second, the four highest values I listed are all within 17 DPS of each other. That is just over 0.1% difference. That is very slight and as I indicated in the post is unlikely to be statistically significant. If you want to try and take anything out of the numbers you will notice that the two rotations that include casting MF during lunar Eclipse are very slightly higher. While, the rotation casts IS during solar was very similar to the skip always. But again, these differences are very slight and unlikely to be statistically significant.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-83798343829790394642010-09-09T00:26:54.476-05:002010-09-09T00:26:54.476-05:00I'm a bit confused. The highest DPS value list...I'm a bit confused. The highest DPS value listed in your grid is for "Cast DoT if Own Eclipse has more then 4 sec remaining or if Eclipse is down", but you gloss over this and only talk briefly about slight improvements from casting Moonfire at the beginning of Lunar. The highest DPS listed in your grid is also the one that makes the most sense without running any simulations at all, and as far as I know is what most moonkins do anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27506427787592752812010-09-08T18:47:51.019-05:002010-09-08T18:47:51.019-05:00Sup Graylo,
Long time reader here :) At first it ...Sup Graylo,<br /><br />Long time reader here :) At first it was for simple Moonkin-y informational purposes, but as of late I like reading your blog just for the hell of it.<br /><br />This is the first time I comment on someone's blog :o<br /><br />Anyways, a few comments about Starfall. For people with lesser gear, having Starfall up during Eclipse can be a great bonus, as it works toward 100% Nature's Grace uptime. For those with less crit, this can be a great DPS boost when Wrath (or Starfire D:) doesn't crit during Eclipse and you'd otherwise lose NG.<br /><br />Keep the posts coming mate :)Clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06613862220080538940noreply@blogger.com