tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post9185879099155659598..comments2023-12-13T05:38:56.001-06:00Comments on Gray Matter: Rumination on Stat DesignGraylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-5292987410692289012009-10-01T13:01:26.261-05:002009-10-01T13:01:26.261-05:00It seems like I dislike hit for the same reason yo...It seems like I dislike hit for the same reason you like it. It's an NP-hard problem, specifically bag packing. That means you can only solve it optimally by iterating all the possible solutions. Fortunately there aren't too many usually, so it's manageable, but I don't enjoy doing it over and over.<br /><br />Plenty of other people seem to dislike doing it manually, which leads to tools like Rawr. It's an amazing tool but I wish it wasn't needed, we shouldn't be forced to use external tools (EXEs especially) just to decide what gear to wear.<br /><br />IMHO higher ilvl pieces should always be a reward and there shouldn't be hard caps that force people to obsess over every point. The haste/crit interaction is good because it encourages balance, while allowing customisation. This is especially true with critting dots etc, just waiting for crit hots :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06656717702605575713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-91689063983645403722009-08-24T14:55:18.899-05:002009-08-24T14:55:18.899-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-55585249893084563172009-08-15T15:45:39.276-05:002009-08-15T15:45:39.276-05:00+10 all stats is on my belt.. i found it under met...+10 all stats is on my belt.. i found it under meta gems but it matches any socket sry, like i said i am a noobPhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607598992905430655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-73475464525165622432009-08-15T12:04:14.663-05:002009-08-15T12:04:14.663-05:00@Gray
Well, I'm not sure if maybe I'm usi...@Gray<br /><br />Well, I'm not sure if maybe I'm using the right term for what I am trying to describe, but as a more concrete example: the difference in ilvl of the tier sets is increasing. The difference between Tier 7, and Tier 8 25 man gear was 13 ilvls. Now we have Tier 9 gear at 258. The progress in gear is non-linear, and because of that, ratings/stats that have caps are in a sense being devalued because we have a harder and harder time making correct use of them. <br /><br />While I agree that during this expansion the absolute value of hit hasn't changed, the abundance of it certainly has. And given that we have to spread our hit out amongst the same number of slots of gear, it means it's going to be harder and harder to properly balance hit given that the granularity is disappearing.<br /><br />Much as your example of 'buckets' on individual pieces of gear, the same concept applies to the number of gear 'slots' that each character has. Since the number of pieces of equipment I can equip is fixed, and since ilvl is increasing(and increasing non-linearly), capped stats are going to come in larger and larger 'chunks' whether I want them to or not, and the amount of 'wasted' stats is going to increase as a consequence of this. So in that sense it's losing value for me.<br /><br />I haven't been sleeping well, I hope I'm making sense :)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08304331628722479024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-40547906712639898932009-08-15T07:24:13.109-05:002009-08-15T07:24:13.109-05:00I may be misunderstanding Phil, but the Chaotic is...I may be misunderstanding Phil, but the Chaotic is a meta and meta slots only appear on helms so it is not possible to equip two at once.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-35833169935937792782009-08-14T12:52:32.778-05:002009-08-14T12:52:32.778-05:00I have one Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, and one +10 t...I have one Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, and one +10 to all stats, should i just get two Chaotic Skyflare Diamonds?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607598992905430655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-32601779555113649682009-08-14T10:45:09.379-05:002009-08-14T10:45:09.379-05:00To Ashivor:
Glad to know boom is one of the easy-...To Ashivor:<br /><br />Glad to know boom is one of the easy-to-set-weights specs. It's my next toon on the way up. I love enhance but need a break from running a 10,000 hour sim to check one item swap. Space Chicken incoming!<br /><br />(To those who've not done enhance: Not exaggerating. No static stat weights. Too many stats--everything but spirit, defense, MP5, and block are useful--and damage too dynamic.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-85087964813800388562009-08-14T10:23:49.992-05:002009-08-14T10:23:49.992-05:00@Lherin
I don't really think it is stat-flati...@Lherin<br /><br />I don't really think it is stat-flation. I think they are trying to stick the same amount of stats into fewer buckets.<br /><br />After looking at these comments I noticed something. Take a look at the Tier gear from TBC and compare it to WotLK tier gear. All of the WotLK items have 5 distinct stats. The TBC items could have up to 6 distinct buckets. I made a post on it in the WoW forums but it didn't go any where. You can find it here: <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19110028133&postId=191082793119&sid=1#0" rel="nofollow">Link</a><br /><br />@Phil <br /><br />Your meta should be the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond. It is a huge DPS buff for you.<br /><br />@Anon2<br /><br />As a general rule I prefer to be over the hit cap rather than under it. Sure, 20 spell power may give you more DPS than 10 hit in a normal setting, but things don't always go normally. For example, what if your Draenei dies or you get out of range. Your FF can miss if your relying on that 3%. What if FF or Misery drop off while you're casting?<br /><br />On top of that, if your under the cap you leave open the possibility to be screwed by RNG. Sure the probably of missing may only be 0.5% but that doesn't mean you won't miss 5% of them.<br /><br />@Anon4<br /><br />As far as I know the hit number did not go up. It's likely that your misses were due to bad timing and bad luck. Remember at 264 hit rating you're relying on Imp FF or Misery to be up on the boss. If those drop off for any significant time your going to miss some spells.<br /><br />@Luke<br /><br />It really depend on how you level. I tend to fight mobs that are lower level then me so the hit helps very little and I get what I need from Balance of Power.<br /><br />Someone who is always fighting higher level mobs will get more out of it.<br /><br />@Mr Woof<br /><br />That is a very interesting idea. I would love to see it in-game, but I bet it would be a real pain to code.<br /><br />@Anon7 <br /><br />Thanks for pointing it out. I hadn't noticed it. Its not a huge upgrade for me, but it definately gives me some room for future upgrades.Graylohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-30626635446813471542009-08-14T09:06:21.274-05:002009-08-14T09:06:21.274-05:00Hey there Gray, thanks for all the information.
...Hey there Gray, thanks for all the information. <br /><br />I know your schedule may be busy, but if you haven't already you may want to jump into heroic ToC. There is a hit back there that would allow you to reequip your unsullied cuffs (which are more than 30dps better than what you are wearing). You will come out much better while only having to run an quick 5 man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-90735013236182173362009-08-14T00:18:25.188-05:002009-08-14T00:18:25.188-05:00@anon
Yes, I had a dreanei in my group. I was a l...@anon<br /><br />Yes, I had a dreanei in my group. I was a little shocked that I had misses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-56095054875867729282009-08-13T15:55:54.819-05:002009-08-13T15:55:54.819-05:00"Hit Rating has the potential to make a lower..."Hit Rating has the potential to make a lower level item better then an item of a higher tier."<br /><br />This cuts both ways. Just like a lower ilvl hit item can be more valuable when you're under the hit cap than a higher ilvl non-hit item, a lower ilvl non-hit item can be more valuable than a higher ilvl hit item if you are at or over the cap.<br /><br />Hit is great because it's the stat that we balance around. I don't "need" to be at certain crit, haste or spell power levels (to a degree, I will give you the ~400 haste point of inflection), but I DO balance my gear to put me as close to 236 hit as possible. The other stats you sort of just stack as much of as possible, depending on their relative weights.Fowltemperedhttp://www.legions-guild.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-27911858518283009112009-08-13T14:10:40.602-05:002009-08-13T14:10:40.602-05:00Great write up! This helps so much.
Skonged
http:...Great write up! This helps so much.<br /><br />Skonged<br />http://everythingoverpowered.blogspot.com/Skongedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06565598218302164563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-63805485495807312672009-08-13T13:57:14.730-05:002009-08-13T13:57:14.730-05:00Couldn't they help the problem by converting a...Couldn't they help the problem by converting a % of all or excess hit to crit? Like 1 hit=0.3 crit rating? If 'hit is not missing the target' can't more hit be 'hit it better; e.g. vital spots'? ~WoofMr Woofnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-47544047827606797172009-08-13T13:00:11.221-05:002009-08-13T13:00:11.221-05:00I've always been a huge fan of hit while level...I've always been a huge fan of hit while leveling, and keeping 5% or so at all times. Why? because misses suck. They are anti-crits. It means you need another attack or spellcast to take down that mob, instead of one fewer. Always have hit even for leveling.<br /><br />I do understand the frustration that casters (and non-DW toons) can have with hit caps, though. My hunter has i think 9% hit and is doing mostly heroics, so way over cap, and keen to replace a piece or two of weaker, hit gear with non-hit gear. However, for Rogues, Enh Shaman, and Fury Warriors, hit is a beautiful thing, since the white-damage hit cap is basically unreachable. Other stats are more valuable than hit past the yellow/spell hit caps, but pushing past the 8% yellow hit cap to the 17%-13% spell hit cap also increases white damage, too. This, i feel, is ultimately why Titan Grip's hit penalty on yellow attacks was turned into a flat damage reduction: since you needed more hit to meet the yellow cap, that also meant you had fewer white misses, leading to more damage and rage, negating the penalty.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13301923314506624178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-75811769232774352882009-08-13T12:23:05.600-05:002009-08-13T12:23:05.600-05:00@anon above me. did you have a dreanei in your gro...@anon above me. did you have a dreanei in your group?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-76600037595047505572009-08-13T11:41:55.123-05:002009-08-13T11:41:55.123-05:00Just a question. Did the HIT number go up for the ...Just a question. Did the HIT number go up for the new raid instances?<br /><br />We did the 1st 2 bosses and I actually missed .5% with wrath and missed 1.1% with SF.<br /><br />My hit is at 264.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-70598678876781076272009-08-13T04:52:50.036-05:002009-08-13T04:52:50.036-05:00completely agree. this falls perfectly in line wit...completely agree. this falls perfectly in line with my own thoughts on the subject, and im pleased to hear that others can also get a certain enjoyment out of analyzing such things. i thought that was just a particular perversion of mine. :)sZimmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-8957195257153616772009-08-13T04:29:37.417-05:002009-08-13T04:29:37.417-05:00The only think I dislike about hit is the hard cap...The only think I dislike about hit is the hard cap. I am, unfortunately, well over the hit cap at the moment. I have too much gear that, even minus hit, is better than other pieces I had. All that extra hit is a complete waste. While Lherin doesn't like to have extra hit gear, I found myself in the opposite situation with no recourse. I didn't keep NON hit gear. <br /><br />I'm much more of a fan of hit from a melee prospective. It's more like our haste now. They hit cap, then get a bit more. The downside is that it's better used dps wise elsewhere. The upside is that their normal melee (white hits) are more likely to hit. While it's not ideal, it's not wasted. <br /><br />As it stands we shoot for 10% crit, and then stop. Anything else is as useful as ... well Southern Euphemisms in inappropriate settings. I'd simply like to see it do SOMETHING after "cap."Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02746167924889094460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-91676251213430376232009-08-12T18:49:19.582-05:002009-08-12T18:49:19.582-05:00The main problem I have with hit is not the BIS si...The main problem I have with hit is not the BIS situation it's when u are working towards your BIS it's the fact u cant upgrade your gear 1 piece at a time. quite a few times u get an new uber piece of loot only to have it sit in my bag for 3 weeks till I get the other piece so I can keep up with the hit cap.<br /><br />Been times when I've just passed on gear because i would need to get 3 other pieces of loot b4 I could even use it.<br /><br />I would like them to take the giant leaps out of your gear progression, similar things happened with our set bonus we need to get 5 pieces of loot be we can upgrade past our T8.<br /><br />What the blue means here is that blizz don't like this method of having to get 3-5 pieces of loot till it's worth wearing any of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-60339065359088977662009-08-12T16:54:05.528-05:002009-08-12T16:54:05.528-05:00I think it is important to remember the relative w...I think it is important to remember the relative weights when trying to balance gear around the hit cap (and Gray has already done the hard math to calculate the weights). Being under the hit cap is not necessarily a bad thing if the stats you gain instead out weight the difference. So, for instance, if you are 10 under the hit cap, but would lose more than 15 spell power by swapping gear, you are better off staying under the hit cap.<br /><br />The other aspect is that hit and crit are statistical gains while spell power and haste are direct gains, so while the math may favor one over the other, the "feel" of play may dictate a different choice.<br /><br />A final point is that weights and BiS lists generally ignore regen stats, which is probably reasonable for our current state (perhaps not while leveling though), but if you run out of mana, regen stats also translate into dps gains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-49828402887691914652009-08-12T14:19:03.665-05:002009-08-12T14:19:03.665-05:00For my meta I used +10 to all stats... is that oka...For my meta I used +10 to all stats... is that okay? I have been following Gaylo's gemming post but I found the +10 and it was a steal so I snatched it up. <br /><br />p.s. thanks all for you continued assistancePhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607598992905430655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-29444575669930999072009-08-12T13:43:40.027-05:002009-08-12T13:43:40.027-05:00If you look back to an entry made last week: http...If you look back to an entry made last week: <a rel="nofollow"> http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2009/08/patch-32-few-reminders.html</a><br /><br />You will see the following:<br />Weights<br />Hit: 1.595 (Only until 263)<br />Spell: 1<br />Haste: .941<br />Crit: .742<br /><br />After 400 Haste<br />Haste: .389<br /><br />So what that means is that hit is the absolute most important thing until 263 (assuming with balance of power and IFF), then you should try to get Haste to ~ 400. The reason there is the soft cap with haste is because after 400, with Nature's Grace <a rel="nofollow">http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=61346 </a> your wrath spells will get down below the global min time of 1 sec.<br /><br />For instance I just got a new pair of pants from the new 5 man "Leggings of the Snowy Bramble" <a rel="nofollow"> http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47249 </a> which are fantastic pants for that level, the problem is of course I was already over 400, which wasn't as much of a problem until 3.2 dropped. So with those pants I am at ~ 500 haste, and clipping the global time. My wrath with a Nature's grace is .93 seconds, so in other words I am wasting .07 seconds not including my usual 150 ms lag. So I am going to rearrange my gear with a few other pieces to swap out some haste gear with crit gear. <br /><br />So phil, quick recap: hit to 263, haste to ~ 400, then try for crit > haste, and always socket/enchant spell power. For the meta, I use spell/spirit to take care of that pesky 2 blue gem meta requirement.Ashivornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-58815454603912713812009-08-12T13:23:48.770-05:002009-08-12T13:23:48.770-05:00I just wasn't sure if with the new order of st...I just wasn't sure if with the new order of stats and all the changes with the new patch if all of the older posts still applied.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607598992905430655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-34421663556852041782009-08-12T12:59:00.367-05:002009-08-12T12:59:00.367-05:00@Phill
We have to be careful when using the word ...@Phill<br /><br />We have to be careful when using the word 'cap', because there are really two kinds, hard and soft.<br /><br />There is only one stat we have currently which has an easily achievable 'hard' cap, and that's hit. Assuming standard raid buffs/debuffs you need 263 hit to be 'capped'. After that, any additional hit is worth exactly 0 dps.<br /><br />Some of the other stats have achievable 'soft' caps. Which means at certain values they lose dps potential versus other stats, but at no point does their value become 0. (no point that you can reach with the equipment currently in the game)<br /><br />I'm sure gray has made a post in the past explaining all this, you should check his older posts.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08304331628722479024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-40810918014230471022009-08-12T12:47:03.224-05:002009-08-12T12:47:03.224-05:00I am a noob:
What are all the caps for all the dif...I am a noob:<br />What are all the caps for all the different stats? What stats have no cap? Gear choice is my weak spot. With every patch worth has changed and my head is spinning. Hit then SP then haste then crit right? but is it worth it to dorp 30 hit 34 crit 30 haste for an extra 800 spell power?<br /><br />~Gargen of US-Vek'nilash<br />lost with gear choicesPhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607598992905430655noreply@blogger.com