Tuesday, February 2, 2010

Moonkin Healing for Valithria

EDIT: I originally thought this was a great idea for a post. Now I am not so sure. Hamlet made some good points in the comments that make me think this might be pointless. Healing while on the move could be helpful, but the shifting in and out of Moonkin form could kill your mana. I'm leaving the guide up, but realize it is speculative and may not be helpful in the encounter.

With the new wing of ICC opening today, we have a couple new fights to try out, and one of them is completely different then anything we've ever seen before. On the surface the Valithria Dreamwalker fight seems like a typical add rush fight, but instead of DPSing the "boss", you have to heal her to full. As a result, moonkin may be asked to fill a role that they are not familure with: healer. In this post I would like to take a look at the healing spells we have available and where moonkin can get the most bang for their buck.

Disclaimer: Apparently my first disclaimer was not clear enough. THIS IS NOT A RESTO GUIDE. This is a guide for Moonkin Healing Valithria. Not the raid. Valithria. I am writing this guide from the perspective of a moonkin who is unfamiliar with his healing spells and wants to maximize his HpS on the Valithria encounter. As such, I focus on through put instead of utility or mana efficiency. I am also assuming that the player is using their normal Moonkin gear. If you have a healing set that will probably change the math a little bit, but you shouldn't need this guide if you're familiar with druid healing. That said, if any of you do see big holes in my analysis please post them in the comments. Since I do not play resto, I may have missed something.

Moonkin Healing as Moonkin:

This is the role I think most of us will be playing. The primary role is to DPS the adds down, but if we have down time we should heal the boss as much as possible. It is probably also a good idea to HoT up the boss while we are on the move. With that in mind I am using my normal Moonkin spec for this section of the analysis. I am also assuming I have 4000 spell power, 47% Crit chance, and 19.5% Haste from gear.

Healing Touch: This is the big healing spell available to druids. It is generally not used by Restos because the cast is to long, but it has a ton of through put in the right situation.

Avg HT Cast Time = (3/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05))*(1-0.7191)+(3/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05*1.2))*(0.7191)
Avg HT Cast Time = (2.2537)*(0.2809)+(1.8781)*(0.7191) = 1.9836 seconds

Avg HT HpS: ((4089+(4000*1.6114))*(1+(0.5*0.51)))/1.9836 = 6665 HpS
Nourish: This is the second direct heal available to druids. It has a shorter cast time and synergies well with HoTs. It will generally be Haste Capped.

Avg Nourish Cast Time = (1.5/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05))*(1-0.8511)+(1.5/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05*1.2))*(0.8511)
Avg Nourish Cast Time = (1.1268)*(0.1489)+(1)*(0.8511) = 1.0189 seconds

Avg Nourish HpS: ((2035+(4000*0.671))*(1+(0.5*0.51)))/1.0189 = 5812 HpS
Avg Nourish HpS w/ HoT: ((2035+(4000*0.671))*1.2*(1+(0.5*0.51)))/1.0189 = 6975 HpS

Regrowth: This is a hybrid spell, part nuke and part HoT.

Avg RG Cast Time = (2/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05))*(1-0.8511)+(2/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05*1.2))*(0.8511)
Avg RG Cast Time = (1.5024)*(0.1489)+(1.2520)*(0.8511) = 1.2893 seconds

Avg DH RG Healing: (2364+(4000*.539))*(1+(0.5*0.47)) = 5582 Health
Avg HoT RG Healing: (2345+(4000*1.316))*(9/7) = 9783 Health

Avg RG HpET (5582 + 9783)/1.2893 = 11917 HpET
Lifebloom: Another hybrid spell, but starts with the HoT and ends with the Nuke. The execution time for LB will be the same as that of Nourish, so I will just pull that value in my calcs.

Avg DH LB Healing: (776+(4000*.516))*(1+(0.5*0.47)) = 3507 Health
Avg HoT LB Healing: (371+(4000*0.666))*(9/7) = 3902 Health

Avg RG HpET: (3507 + 3902)/1.0189 = 7272 HpET

Rejuvenation: This is a basic HoT. Very efficient and has a lot of through put if allowed to tick all the way through. Again the execution time is the same as Nourish.

Avg Rejuv HpET: (1690+(4000*1.88))*(9/7)/1.0189 = 11622 HpET
Conclusion: It is not surprising that HoTs win the day. The basic strategy I would use is to HoT up the boss as much as possible while moving. I think having some targeting macros would be helpful here. If you do have a few seconds to heal the boss, cast Regrowth, maintain the other HoTs, and use Nourish as filler if you have time.

Moonkin Healing as Tree:

I don't know if this will be necessary or not, but I also looked at this question from the perspective of a moonkin picking up a healing spec specifically to heal Valithria. Here is the spec I used. I skipped a lot of the talents that are generally considered standard resto talents. This spec is built purely for through put, and again I skipped a lot of the utility. Specifically I skipped Wild Growth because accounts from the PTR indicate it won't hit Valithria.

The math will use the same stats I used above, but I did modify the crit chance base upon talents I picked up.

Healing Touch: There are a lot of talents that improve Healing Touch, Most of which are not typical of a resto build. If you are using a standard resto build expect your values to be less.

Avg HT Cast Time = (2.5/(1.195*1.1*1.03*1.03*1.05))*(1-0.75)+(3/(1.195*1.1*1.03*1.03*1.05*1.2))*(0.75)
Avg HT Cast Time = (1.7073)*(0.25)+(1.4228)*(0.75) = 1.4939 seconds

Avg HT HpS: ((4089+(4000*2.011))*(1.1*1.04)*(1+(0.5*0.54)))/1.4939 = 11800 HpS

Nourish: Does not improve as much as Healing Touch but the addition of the Glyph does help.

Avg Nourish Cast Time = (1.5/(1.195*1.1*1.03*1.03*1.05))*(1-0.875)+(1.5/(1.195*1.03*1.03*1.05*1.2))*(0.875)
Avg Nourish Cast Time = (1.0244)*(0.125)+(1)*(0.875) = 1.0031 seconds

Avg Nourish HpS: ((2035+(4000*0.871))*(1.1*1.04)*(1+(0.5*0.79)))/1.0031 = 8780 HpS
Avg Nourish HpS w/ HoT: ((2035+(4000*0.871))*(1.32*1.1*1.04)*(1+(0.5*0.79)))/1.0031 = 12155 HpS
Regrowth: Regrowth gets a lot of help from a Resto spec and a Glyph of Regrowth. The strange thing here is that you will want clip the HoT in the end to get 20% buff.

Avg RG Cast Time = (2/(1.195*1.1*1.03*1.03*1.05))*(1-0.875)+(2/(1.195*1.1*1.03*1.03*1.05*1.2))*(0.875)
Avg RG Cast Time = (1.3659)*(0.125)+(1.1382)*(0.875) = 1.1666 seconds

Avg DH RG Healing: (2364+(4000*.647))*(1.2*1.1*1.04)*(1+(0.5*0.75)) = 9347 Health
Avg HoT RG Healing: (2345+(4000*1.579))*(1.25*1.1*1.04)*(9/7) = 15923 Health

Avg RG HpET (9347 + 15923)/1.1666 = 21661 HpET
Lifebloom: Like Nourish doesn't get a lot of help from a resto spec. EDIT: Hamlet and Andreas brought up a good Lifebloom strat in the comments. If you stack LB to three by refressing LB at the end of the HoT you get 3 free HoTs.
Avg DH LB Healing: (776+(4000*0.619))*(1.1*1.04)*(1+(0.5*0.5)) = 4650 Health
Avg HoT LB 8 tick Healing: (371+(4000*0.799))*(1.05*1.1*1.04)*(8/7) = 4897 Health
Avg HoT LB Healing: (371+(4000*0.799))*(1.05*1.1*1.04)*(9/7) = 5509 Health

Avg RG HpET: ((3*4650)+(3*4897)+(3*5509))/(3*1.0031) = 15009 HpET
Rejuvenation: It gets a lot of help from a resto spec, and the Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation. Again the execution time is the same as Nourish.

Avg Rejuv HpET: (1690+(4000*2.257))*(1.2*1.1*1.04)*(6/5)/1.0031 = 17602 HpET
Swiftmend: A nice instant heal with a higher HpET then Nourish.
Avg SM HpET: (1690+(4000*2.257))*(1.2*1.1*1.04)*(4/5)/1.0031 = 11735 HpET

Conclusions: If you are a focused healer on Valithria is very similar to what is normal for a DPSer. Keep the HoTs up and nuke when you have the chance. Make sure you slow roll Lifebloom and clip the end of Regrowth. Other then that keep Rejuv up and use Nourish as filler. On the move Swiftmend can give you a quick burst of healing.


If you are a moonkin looking to put some heals on Valithria while you DPS down the adds, it is best to put up Rejuv and Lifebloom as you move. If you have a few moments in between add waves, then you want to add Regrowth and Nourish to your rotation. If you pick up a healing spec to heal the boss, then your rotation is Regrowth, Rejuv, Slow Rolling Lifebloom and Nourish, but you want to make sure to clip Regrowth slightly to take advantage of the Glyph of Regrowth.


lissanna said...

Note for actual resto druids: Don't follow the resto spec for moonkin for general purpose use. ;)

Andreas said...

In this, as far as I can tell, you havne't calculated for any stacking of the HoT from Life Blooom. Stacking it up near full duration (8 ticks I guess it whould have to be), and then letting it bloom at 3 stacks willl give you 3 free (both mana and execution time) LB HoTs. Calculating in those 3x8 free ticks worth of LB HoT, shoud improve it's value quite a bit.
I guess the Simplifed apoximation is to double the HoT parts value for LB. Since you över 3 casts gets a total of thre free sets of HoT.

lissanna said...

Also, for resto healing, we usually suggest 3 HOTs on a target +nourish glyph for Nourish to be a good heal. It's not so great without HOTs.

The idea of unglyphed HT for Val is neat, but are moonkin going to have the mana to sustain it? I tend to run OOM faster when I try to heal in my moonkin gear.

Jay said...

I'm a bit skeptical that hybrid healing should be emphasized. If your DPS team has significant gaps between waves (or in general, has lots of time to spare healing the boss), it will likely be a sign that you have too many. It's just like normal, better to specialize and bring the number of specced-out healers and DPS that you need.

As far as healing it as Tree: for one, you're forgetting the much better HPET from slow-rolling a Lifebloom to 3. Best raw HPS on a single target is to keep Rapid Rejuv, Glyphed Regrowth, and slow-rolled Lifebloom up, while filling in Glyphed Nourish. I'd use any normal Resto spec that has Empowered Touch. I believe we know yet whether Living Seeds will have any use. Either way, I don't see what those points in Naturalist in your spec are for, or why you randomly dropped a point out of MSS.

You might find this useful (it should be pretty familiar :) ).

Jay said...

Actually, this makes me think: maybe Swiftmend could be worthwhile. Rejuv Swiftmend has a better HPET than Nourish (although Regrowth Swiftmend doesn't, which is a huge pain). It would eat a Glyph slot, but the Glyph of Regrowth isn't adding all that much anyway.

Tyrheleh said...

Its fantastic to see a boss fight that will hopefully make boomkins even more valuable

Makes me wonder if we should value spirit a little more for mana regen in such a fight

Unrealdruid said...

There is also some buffs that might help the healers to keep the mana up, like the Dream clouds inside the Emerald Dream phase. I'm not so sure about how many clouds we will see in the fight, but if there are enough to share, we might take one to help on healing.

Graylo said...


As I said in the disclaimer, this is not a general healing guide, and I am ignoring Utility and Mana in favor of maximizing through put.

This guide and spec is focus at 1 thing only: healing Valithria as hard and as fast as you possibly can. Look at as a DPS guide with healing spells.

That said, what is true for a normal resto druid may not be true for this role. I've assumed Moonkin Gear and an odd spec. I've also said people with resto experiance should ignore the guide.

Finally, Mana should not be an issue in this fight for a DPSing moonkin or a healing Moonkin. As DPS we have no mana issues, and as a healer we should be taking the portals.


I'm confused. How would stacking 3 LBs and letting them bloom make them mana and execution time free? I ignored stacking because I figured the HpET was the same for one stack or 3, because it requres 3 casts to stack.


In general I completely agree that we shouldn't deviate from our standard roles, and that if we have significant down time then we should try and change the raid make up. However, that does not make this guide irrelevant.

1. Even if you spend all your time DPSing add waves, you will still be running around. Throwing a HoT up on the boss when you can is the right thing to do.

2. My guild has ony 29 raiders. Only 2 of our DPSers have healing second specs. Not every guild will have the luxury of bring in 9 or 10 experianced healers if that is what is called for.

Lifebloom: I had not concidered rolling Lifebloom so you may have a very good point there.

The Spec: Leaving the point out of MSS is an oversight. It is included in my calcs. I picked up Naturalist because it is a significant buff for Healing Touch. However, if you roll Lifebloom then Nourish probably wins and those points can be spent else where.

Swiftmend: I agree on swiftmend now also, It looks like the math I did at first was missing some stuff. The good news is I probably have some extra points from Naturalist now.

Jay said...

(This is Hamlet, btw).

By "slow-roll" LB, I meant the same thing as the above poster--refresh on the final tick up to 3 stacks and then let bloom. This has much higher HPET than a single cast (and roughly the same HPET as rolling, but far cheaper).

Hopefully you won't need more that 8-9 healers, that would be generally poor design.

Jay said...

Also, you might have substantial mana issues if you're constantly dropping HoT's on the boss and reshifting while running around.

Graylo said...


So, are you saying it is possible to let Lifebloom bloom, and refresh all three stacks at the same time? If that is true, that would be awesome. However, I wonder if that is something really viable for someone not used to the timing of it.

Jay said...

No no, I just mean:
1) cast LB (1 stack)
2) right before final tick, refresh (2 stacks)
3) right before final tick, refresh (3 stacks)
4) let bloom (0 stacks)
5) repeat

A single cast gives you 9 ticks and one bloom for one cast. This gives you 8 single ticks, 8 double ticks, and 9 triple ticks: 51 ticks total and 3 blooms, for three casts. So 24 more ticks than if you'd cast three times separately.

Kim said...

The issue I'm seeing is the math doesn't account for tier or idol bonuses and glyph options. It also assumes you're not helping with raid heals.

For instance, you need to keep rejuv up constantly in your rotation for the 256 spellpower proc off your idol. Tier 10 gives bonuses that make rejuv and wild growth very attractive and if you're doing any kind of raid healing at all, wg is always worth keeping. Glyphed, wg allows you to instantly toss a smart hot on 6 people in a targeted area.

I'd agree that I would also never give up swiftmend. With the glyph, it's an instant free rejv/regrowth heal without removing any hots, for only one talent point.

I've seen math that shows nourish is significantly better than regrowth with stacked hots, glyphed and especially with the t9 tier bonus.

It also looks like the talent build you have would be difficult on mana for an extended fight.

Kim said...

OK, I saw in your comments--though it wasn't clear in your post--that you assume moonkin gear.

I think if you're going to go resto spec, you might as well pick up the glyphs and whatever tier 9 emblems you can for resto. The idol is I think only 30 and an easy pickup for most.

Anonymous said...

I like the idea of healing in Moonkin spec. Since I do this very often in 10 man content (we bring 2 healers and I am often called upon to heal situationally), I've seen the advantage of being able to perform multiple roles in the same fight.

It is *so* much fun to be a druid, and not a mage with feathers :) I would never be a full-time healer, but IMO there's a real intangible value to being able to dps and heal in the same fight.

In the group I was in last week, I dpsed during the add phase of Deathwhisper, but switched to heals during phase 2. It worked out great and we took her down very quickly. We were short on casters, so we wouldn't have been able to down the fanatics properly without me dps'ing.

You could say we had a bad group composition, but it really opens up a lot of possibilities for a raid leader when you can perform dps and off healing duties.

In 25 man content, however, I would say just be a mage with feathers :)

Anonymous said...

If you are going to do this it might be worthwhile to pick up the triumph badge resto idol (Idol of Flaring Growth). The spellpower granted could outweigh the crit from the moonkin idols.

Andreas said...

What you do with the Idols: get both and make a macro to equipp them as you cast Moonfire and Rejuvenation respecively. Since they occupie a ranged slot they are considerd weapons and can be switched in combat.
Although you no longer can "Twist" the buffs to have both up, you still can get the appropriet one up for the spell you are using at the moment.

lissanna said...

I think it's worth talking about, even if people don't strictly follow the guide, it's a good conversation-starter to discuss pros & cons of various strats.

lissanna said...

Also, I have healed raid bosses accidentally wearing moonkin gear before. If you actually pay attention to the mana conservation issues involved, I think we could work out something viable.

Jay said...

If you're casting HoT's frequently, probably best to just use a Resto Idol full-time for the spellpower bonus. Twisting is really annoying anyway (and remember that it does lose some time, since the GCD incurred by Idol swapping is unhasted). You could even work out a rotation where you cast a Rejuv every 30s to keep Black Willow up. Just saying though, you're giving up a bunch of DPS for small extra heals.

Lissanna: The issue isn't Moonkin gear. All you lose there is a little regen from Spirit. It's being a Moonkin spec--your heals are all substantially weaker. I sometimes heal heroics as Moonkin spec to amuse pugs by topping DPS while healing, and it can be a workout. Not having Empowered Rejuvenation and Gift of Nature, mainly, is a big deal for this purpose.

Random thought I was talking about on EJ earlier: you probably want to use Swiftmend during Guardian Spirits (which should be pretty frequent).

Kim said...

Downed Valithria Dreamwalker last night as moonkin on 10 man. I was struggling with mana just dpsing as there's alot of aoe for this and switching targets based on priority.

Also significant raid damage, especially from blazing skeletons.

We downed it with 3 healers, no assist from hybrids.

Ulketulke said...

I expectet a lot from this encounter but it was pretty lame in the end.
We went there today und everybody was like "omg its a dmg race" "the ads will spawn faster and faster"
So all DDs were ready to give all they have ^^
We ended up with a wipe, cause half of the DDs (myself included) pulled agro from the tank =/
The 2nd try we all calmed down and defeated the boss easily.
In my opinion healing as a moonkin is not useful you use up a lot of mana and get not much heal out of it. so if you are short on healers you can respec to resto but you can beat the encounter easily with a normal 5 or 6 healer setup. (Our ele shaman specced resto cause we usually use a 5 healer setup for most bosses)
p.s. looks like our niebelung was nerved to death -_-

Shem said...

I did the fight on 10 man and to be honest we 3 healed it easily. Me respeccing to resto, which was the original plan meant we got overwhelmed by adds (we also used 2 tanks).

Yet to do it on 25 man. But I'm thinking it might end up a similar deal.

Shem said...

25 man we did swap from our normal 6 healers to 8 healers.

I went for a throughput spec for healing Valithera and took the portals.

Boomkin respecced to Resto for the encounter make EXCEPTIONAL healers.

If you take the portals and tunnelvision the boss throughput is the only stat of importance- because of the portals mana is no concern. So crit/haste items, the Glyphs of Regrowth, Rapid Rejuv and Nourish are exceptional. Spirit stacking resto druids are better off sticking on the raid and getting your innervate.

I topped out at 18000 HPS last night (with 40 stacks of the portal buff), although we didn't quite get her fully healed.

C said...

Not sure if my comment will be offtrack but...

Imao, swapping healing in this fight 10/25 (heroic or not) is bad. Main reason is due to the buffs we may give to raid. 25man may be a place where swapping in and out MAYbe Ok but generally still not.

I, mysef use 2 moonkin speccs in iCC, one for single (boss) fghts and 1 for trash, with loads of blind on aoe (glyphs etc). On the Aoe specc I choose to use 3/3 Intensity instead of IFF which may sounds crazy but it has prooven to be quite usefull, in this fight even more.

Having regen on casting, not only benefits overall issue of the example of healing here but also in help of doing aoe on certain mobs.

Out guilds tactic goes by, dpsing down casters fast and gathering up rest for aoe, leaving more room for healers and semi-healers for healing. The fight goes smoother that way.
For me with aoe-specc and 3/3 on intensity, I even have the time possibility to give away my innvervate to others, toss heals and swap back to mookin back and forth without loosing mana much.

But mainly, as moonkin in for example 10man, you dont usually have the luxory to go off boomkin. If you lack other players with haste buff, you as boomkin are more usefull in moonkin than out of it.

Sorry for bad english and thanks for able to do an input on this.