With dual-specs coming fairly soon, it would be great if you would put up your thoughts on the new talent trees, especially your recommendation for a PvE DPS spec now that we don't need to compromise on DPS in order to be able to serve in another role.
Thanks!
Blardo
Lissanna over at Restokin.com already looked at this topic a little bit, but given the importance that dual specs will play for some people I wanted to give it my perspective. Here are the specs that I think will be most relevant in 3.1.
The Raid Spec: (link)
This is the spec I plan on using when Ulduar drops. It is a little different then my current build because I am a little paranoid about my mana regen with all of the nerfs and more challenging fights. However, I'm not giving up much for that extra regen. Improved Moonfire, is a very poor talent if if you have the Glyph of Moonfire, and I've never been big fan of Gale Winds for a raiding build. For Glyphs the standard three of Starfire, Moonfire, and Insect Swarm are still king.
The Solo/5man Spec: (link)
Your not going to do anything perfectly with this spec, but it is decent for doing several different things. If your plan is to play around with moonkin, then this is a good place to start. You can be affective in Instances and casual raids. Farming will be a little bit easier then with a resto build or my Moonkin raid build. For Glyphs I would go with the standard 3 of Starfire, Moonfire, and Insect Swarm.
The Solo/Farm Spec: (link)
This is a pure farming utility build. It will not preform well in raids or even 5 mans. Its built purely with grinding in mind. I've dropped most of the talents that improve DoTs or rely on DoTs. I've also picked up maximum Mana regen to reduce down time. For Glyphs I would go with Focus, Starfall, and Wrath. This makes your Starfall ability more powerful for AoE grinding and gives you some more pushback resistance on your Wrath spell for single target farming.
My Nooby PvP Spec: (link)
First off a quick reminder. I don't pvp regularly and I could be pointing you completely in the wrong direction here. Take this recommendation with a grain of salt. With this build I've tried to pick up a majority of the DPS talents and pick up a little more survivability. For glyphs I would suggest the Wrath Glyph again and possibly the Starfall glyph. For your final major glyph you may want to look at the Resto glyphs because it isn't unusual for Moonkins to heal in some PvP situations.
Showing posts with label Talent Build. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Talent Build. Show all posts
Monday, April 13, 2009
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
Moonkin Builds: Leveling to 80
Wrath of the Lich King is being released in just over a week, and I think a lot of us are starting to think about how we are going to level. With that in mind I have come up with a little guide talent guide for moonkin looking to level from 70 to 80.
Introduction
It is important to remember that leveling is different then raiding. Both play styles are technically PvE, but the nature of the fights are fundamentally different.
Raid builds are created for maximizing personal DPS over the long hall and buffing raid members to increase raid wide DPS. Survivability is important but predictable. As long as you have enough Health to withstand the fight mechanics, you can survive the fight with a little self awareness.
Fights are much shorter while leveling, and damage can be fairly unpredictable with unexpected adds. Leveling builds should focus more on short term DPS and survivability. You want talents that can give you a controlled burst of DPS and help you run away if needed.
On top of that I think there are two distinct leveling styles that dictate some of your talent choices.
The first style I call the "Root and Nuke" style. A person that uses this style likes to stand at max range, root the mob, cast starfire, and repeat. They try and control the mob as much as possible and take as little damage as possible. This style favors some one that has a relatively low level of gear and can't take many hits. This style also fits someone that instances a lot while they level.
The second style is the "Tanking" style. This is the style I think I will prefer in WotLK. The primary goal of this style is to kill the mob as quick as possible. Since you will take some hits using this style, it favors some one with a high level of gear for the extra DPS and Stamina. Using this style you're a little more prone to getting yourself into bad situations. Therefore, survival talents are a little more important.
Core Talents (link)
This is what I consider to be the core of the talents of a moonkin leveling build and I expect most moonkin would pick all of these up without any help. Most of these are self explanatory, but lets take a look at a few of them.
Balance of Power - Obviously this is a core talent for a raiding build, but some may argue that it isn't needed for a leveling build. It will be less useful for experienced raiders with quite a bit of Hit from gear, but Hit is useful while leveling. You still have a 5% base chance to miss a target of the same level as you. Higher level mobs will have an even grater miss chance.
Owlkin Frenzy - This one depends a little on how you level. Someone that is very good about using Roots to keep the mob away from them and avoiding adds will have less use for this talent. This is how I leveled to 70, but I think my path to 80 will be different. My gear level allows me to kill mobs quickly, and don't have the patience for rooting anymore. Using this "tanking" strategy for leveling makes Owlkin Frenzy a very valuable talent.
My Expected Build (Link)
This is the build I plan to use for leveling when Northrend opens up. I will go over the talents I picked and the talents I skipped, but the general theme to my choices is DPS and killing things mobs quickly.
What I picked up:
Brambles - This talent goes very well with my Tanking style. The primary benefit here is the 75% increase to thorns in my opinion. Since the thorns damage now scales with Spell Power, Thorns packs a punch that hasn't been seen before. On top of that the possible stun with Barkskin makes this a great survival talent to help get you out of those sticky situations. Root and Nuke players may like this talent also for the extra damage to their roots.
Typhoon - I have been very critical of this talent in the past, and I'm still not a big fan of it to be honest. I'm picking it purely as an Oh S#*t button. If I get to many mobs on me I hope to be able to use the knock back to get a little space and run away.
Force of Nature - I've picked this talent for a burst of DPS after a bad pull or when trying to solo an Elite. You can also use them to tank a mob temporarily. They won't change the way you play but the give you a couple of options.
Starfall - This talent is particularly good for bad pulls. It gives you a little extra damage and has a chance to stun the mobs. Again, it won't change the way you play, but does give you more options.
Nature's Focus - This is an all around good survival talent. If you use the Tanking style it allows you to get Wrath off with very little push back. It also helps you get off emergency heals or CC when things are going poorly.
What I skipped:
First off, I skipped pretty much all mana regen talents. I'm not having many mana issues as a raider, so I don't expect to have big issues while leveling. Really the only thing mana regen does for you is allow you to drink less while leveling.
Introduction
It is important to remember that leveling is different then raiding. Both play styles are technically PvE, but the nature of the fights are fundamentally different.
Raid builds are created for maximizing personal DPS over the long hall and buffing raid members to increase raid wide DPS. Survivability is important but predictable. As long as you have enough Health to withstand the fight mechanics, you can survive the fight with a little self awareness.
Fights are much shorter while leveling, and damage can be fairly unpredictable with unexpected adds. Leveling builds should focus more on short term DPS and survivability. You want talents that can give you a controlled burst of DPS and help you run away if needed.
On top of that I think there are two distinct leveling styles that dictate some of your talent choices.
The first style I call the "Root and Nuke" style. A person that uses this style likes to stand at max range, root the mob, cast starfire, and repeat. They try and control the mob as much as possible and take as little damage as possible. This style favors some one that has a relatively low level of gear and can't take many hits. This style also fits someone that instances a lot while they level.
The second style is the "Tanking" style. This is the style I think I will prefer in WotLK. The primary goal of this style is to kill the mob as quick as possible. Since you will take some hits using this style, it favors some one with a high level of gear for the extra DPS and Stamina. Using this style you're a little more prone to getting yourself into bad situations. Therefore, survival talents are a little more important.
Core Talents (link)
This is what I consider to be the core of the talents of a moonkin leveling build and I expect most moonkin would pick all of these up without any help. Most of these are self explanatory, but lets take a look at a few of them.
Balance of Power - Obviously this is a core talent for a raiding build, but some may argue that it isn't needed for a leveling build. It will be less useful for experienced raiders with quite a bit of Hit from gear, but Hit is useful while leveling. You still have a 5% base chance to miss a target of the same level as you. Higher level mobs will have an even grater miss chance. Owlkin Frenzy - This one depends a little on how you level. Someone that is very good about using Roots to keep the mob away from them and avoiding adds will have less use for this talent. This is how I leveled to 70, but I think my path to 80 will be different. My gear level allows me to kill mobs quickly, and don't have the patience for rooting anymore. Using this "tanking" strategy for leveling makes Owlkin Frenzy a very valuable talent.My Expected Build (Link)
This is the build I plan to use for leveling when Northrend opens up. I will go over the talents I picked and the talents I skipped, but the general theme to my choices is DPS and killing things mobs quickly.
What I picked up:
Brambles - This talent goes very well with my Tanking style. The primary benefit here is the 75% increase to thorns in my opinion. Since the thorns damage now scales with Spell Power, Thorns packs a punch that hasn't been seen before. On top of that the possible stun with Barkskin makes this a great survival talent to help get you out of those sticky situations. Root and Nuke players may like this talent also for the extra damage to their roots. Typhoon - I have been very critical of this talent in the past, and I'm still not a big fan of it to be honest. I'm picking it purely as an Oh S#*t button. If I get to many mobs on me I hope to be able to use the knock back to get a little space and run away. Force of Nature - I've picked this talent for a burst of DPS after a bad pull or when trying to solo an Elite. You can also use them to tank a mob temporarily. They won't change the way you play but the give you a couple of options. Starfall - This talent is particularly good for bad pulls. It gives you a little extra damage and has a chance to stun the mobs. Again, it won't change the way you play, but does give you more options. Nature's Focus - This is an all around good survival talent. If you use the Tanking style it allows you to get Wrath off with very little push back. It also helps you get off emergency heals or CC when things are going poorly.What I skipped:
First off, I skipped pretty much all mana regen talents. I'm not having many mana issues as a raider, so I don't expect to have big issues while leveling. Really the only thing mana regen does for you is allow you to drink less while leveling.
Eclipse - Its just to random for leveling. It can and will give you a DPS boost, but a lot of the buffs will be wasted on down time.
Nature's Splendor - In most cases the mob shouldn't be alive long enough to take the extra tick of your DoTs. It just won't increase your DPS in most situations.
Genesis - Plain and simple, it is a horrible talent for DPS. Investing 5 points increase DPS by just 1%.
Gale Winds- Since Hurricane is a channelled spell and Typhoon doesn't do a whole lot of damage, there just no point in picking it up. Moonkin aren't able to AoE grind mobs that are the same level as the us. (Did not find picture.)
Talent Points from 71 - 80
Really these points won't have a huge impact on your leveling. I've already picked up all of the main talents that increase your DPS, and there is nothing else that significantly increase your survivability. For a rough guideline, I would put the first five points in Furor. This will give you a little extra DPS, a little extra mana, and little more regen from mana on crit. After that I would probably put the next three in Dreamstate, just to reduce the amount of drinking needed. Finally, I would probably put 70th point in Eclipse for potential extra DPS, and respec at 80 to a raid build.
Again, none of these have a big impact on your performance but you have to put the points some where.
Other Points of View
Phaelia over at Resto4Life wrote a post a while back on the choices Resto's face when picking a leveling build. She provided several different options from pure Moonkin Pew Pew to pure Tree form.
I disagree with some of the choices Phae made in her Moonkin builds, but if your think about healing part of the way to 70 she has presented some good options. You can find the post here.
Tuesday, October 14, 2008
Builds for Patch 3.0.2 - Mailbag
Update: I ended up going with something a little different then I listed below. I was kind of bummed when EnM and Moonfury hadn't been reduced yet because I still wanted to try out Owlkin Frenzy and some of the other talents. So I went with this build instead.
As you probably know, Patch 3.0.2 is dropping today, and with it a lot of changes to the Balance tree. These changed have prompted a lot of debate and questions like this one I received today:
1. Raid Build with Moonfury and EnM at reduced cost. (Core Build),(My Build)
If Moonfury and Earth and Moon have there costs reduced in the patch then you can pick up all of the important talents and have a couple to play with. I have bypassed Intensity, Omen of Clarity and Master Shapeshifter because I'm told that Mana hasn't been a big issue for moonkin on the PTR and putting 16 points in that tree would force us to skip some good talents in the Balance Tree.
The Core Build Picks up all of the major talents in my opinion. In My Build I have also picked up Dreamstate, Owlkin Frenzy, and Starfall. I picked up Dreamstate, because I'm having a hard time trusting that I won't have mana issues without all the mana regen talents. I'm picking this one up to ease my mind a little. Starfall I picked up to play with. It sounds like a cool ability and I want to try it out before the expansion. I picked up Owlkin Frenzy because by guild plans on raiding up until the expansion is released. We are currently working on SWP and clearing BT weekly. Both instances have lots of raid wide damage that could make Owlkin frenzy valuable.
You might also consider Gale Winds all of the trash if your guild is still progressing through Hyjal. Force of Nature is always a fun talent for soloing and some raid bosses. You could also put a point into Eclipse if you don't have the 4T5 or 4T6 set bonuses.
2. Raid Build with Moonfury and EnM at 5 points. (Core Build),(My Build)
This is pretty much the same thing as above, but we don't have as may points to play around with. I still picked up Dreamstate because of my paranoia, and dropped Owlkin Frenzy and Starfall.
3. Solo fun build. (Build)
For those of you that don't plan on seriously raiding for the next month this is the build I would choose. I build this spec purely to play around with some of the new talents. It should allow you to do well in PvP, 5-mans, and raids that you over gear.
M.B. thanks for the question.
What builds are you guy's planning on using? What do you think of the builds I have suggested?
As you probably know, Patch 3.0.2 is dropping today, and with it a lot of changes to the Balance tree. These changed have prompted a lot of debate and questions like this one I received today:
Hi GrayI think this question is on a lot of people's minds right now. It's a little hard to say right now because I don't know if the changes to Moonfury and Earth and Moon have taken affect in the patch but I will look at it both ways.
Tonight we'll start to play on 3.0.2 with a cleared talent tree. I've found a lot of build ready for WOTLK but with all 71 points spent.I need a build for a level 70, to start playing on the patch without headaches.
Have you any suggestions?
Thank you very much.
M.B.
1. Raid Build with Moonfury and EnM at reduced cost. (Core Build),(My Build)
If Moonfury and Earth and Moon have there costs reduced in the patch then you can pick up all of the important talents and have a couple to play with. I have bypassed Intensity, Omen of Clarity and Master Shapeshifter because I'm told that Mana hasn't been a big issue for moonkin on the PTR and putting 16 points in that tree would force us to skip some good talents in the Balance Tree.
The Core Build Picks up all of the major talents in my opinion. In My Build I have also picked up Dreamstate, Owlkin Frenzy, and Starfall. I picked up Dreamstate, because I'm having a hard time trusting that I won't have mana issues without all the mana regen talents. I'm picking this one up to ease my mind a little. Starfall I picked up to play with. It sounds like a cool ability and I want to try it out before the expansion. I picked up Owlkin Frenzy because by guild plans on raiding up until the expansion is released. We are currently working on SWP and clearing BT weekly. Both instances have lots of raid wide damage that could make Owlkin frenzy valuable.
You might also consider Gale Winds all of the trash if your guild is still progressing through Hyjal. Force of Nature is always a fun talent for soloing and some raid bosses. You could also put a point into Eclipse if you don't have the 4T5 or 4T6 set bonuses.
2. Raid Build with Moonfury and EnM at 5 points. (Core Build),(My Build)
This is pretty much the same thing as above, but we don't have as may points to play around with. I still picked up Dreamstate because of my paranoia, and dropped Owlkin Frenzy and Starfall.
3. Solo fun build. (Build)
For those of you that don't plan on seriously raiding for the next month this is the build I would choose. I build this spec purely to play around with some of the new talents. It should allow you to do well in PvP, 5-mans, and raids that you over gear.
M.B. thanks for the question.
What builds are you guy's planning on using? What do you think of the builds I have suggested?
Thursday, September 18, 2008
WotLK Beta Update - Build 8962
Blizzard pushed through another beta build last night and it includes several changes to the Balance tree that I think you will be interested in.
This is definitely an improvement over the old build. Earth and Moon and Imp Moonkin Aura gained buffs that will increase Moonkin DPS.
The best change is to Imp Moonkin Aura for a couple of reason. This is a talent we were going to pick up in the old build, so this is a free buff. Also, anything that boosts our damage in relation to spirit is great because we are going to be seeing a lot of spirit on our gear. This makes up for the nerf to Lunar Guidance a little bit. A lot of people on the forums had been asking to get Crit rating, but I think most will be happy with this also.
Beyond that we have a definite reason to not only pick up Earth and Moon but put 5 points in it for a little additional scaling.
The Bad:
The biggest issue is still bloat. I have seen no indication that any talent costs have been reduced and these talent changes make just increase the number of desirable talents. In the last build I wouldn't have put only 3 points in E&M, and none in Eclipse or Imp Faerie Fire. So, Moonkin now have 8 more places to put talent points we don't have.
This is an issue Moonkin have been stressing since the first alpha build, and with each build it seems to just get worse. I know Blizzard has said they are going to take a look at it and probably shave off a couple of points here or there, but that was several weeks and several builds ago. Its time for them to do something about it. In my current mock raid build, I have 3 points left with 5 viable talents that have 12 possible talent points, And that excludes Imp FF. I'm not saying I should get all 5 talents, but forcing me to drop 3 or 4 of them isn't reasonable either.
Improved Faerie Fire was the least improved in this build. The increased crit is nice, but it does not address the core issue of the talent. The duration of the talent is to short and and it is much easier for another class to apply. Even with the additional crit, Imp Faerie Fire will still be a DPS loss for Moonkin. According to my quick math a rotation SF rotation that included Imp FF would have 1.1% less DPS then an SF rotation that did not include Imp FF. (This assumes the 3% hit is provided by Misery.)
The problem is the duration. Since it is only 40 seconds we cant get enough SF or Wrath casts off to let the Crit compensate for GCD loss let alone improve our DPS. Blizzard needs to increase Faerie Fires Duration or give us some way to refresh it without switching from our damage rotation. As is, no should moonkin will pick up this talent as long as there is an Shadow Priest in raid.
The Unknown:
I think the Jury is still out on Eclipse. The reduction in cooldown and reduced randomness are definite improvements. However, the buff's duration was cut in half to 15 seconds. Also, the question of how Wrath and Starfire relate is still unanswered. Is there enough of a contrast to warrant switching spells?
My Mock Raid Build:
As I mentioned before I have created a new Mock level 80 raid build. Here is the link.
As you can see I still have 3 points that I am unsure how to spend. Here are the choices:
Dreamstate (3 pts) - A lot has been done to improve our mana situation, but with potion sickness I am unsure if this is an expendable talent. If I have mana issues I may be forced to put the points here.
Owlkin Frenzy (3 pts) - This is obviously a great PvP talent, but has some potential in PvE as well. If WotLK raids are designed like BT and SWP with a lot of raid wide damage, the the push back resistance and extra damage will be very helpful.
Eclipse (3 pts) - As I said before, I am very up in the air on this talent. I don't know if it has been improved or not. I need to sit down and do some math to figure it out.
Force of Nature (1 pts) - I love the trees, but the are hardly an ideal raid talent. In WotLK they will be a little more controllable, but they will still be weak and situationally useful. On top of that I have never gotten really proficient at casting the spell. I always seem to get a little out of range. The plus side is they can do significant damage that is both threat free and mana efficient if used correctly.
Gale Winds (2 pts) - I would love to pick up this talent. I hate getting killed by locks and mages on the damage meters during AoE pulls. In Hyjal, Holly Paladins can do similar damage to what I can do because the run in and Consecrate. The problem is we don't know how important AoE is going to be in WotLK. Right now I file this talent under nice but situational.
Conclusion:
This is a nice start, because there are some very nice changes here. I think most moonkin though would agree with me and say that a few more changes are needed. Something needs to be done about bloat, and Imp Faerie Fire needs to be tweaked. Eclipse may need to be tweaked also, but I will wait until I have done the math to say for sure one way or the other.
Let me know what you think. How would you design a raid build with these changes? How does this change your outlook on the tree if at all?
Edit: I saw the change in Eclipse's duration and edited some of my comments.
* Earth and Moon (Tier 10) changed so your Wrath and Starfire spells have a 100% chance to apply the Earth and Moon effect. It now also increases your spell damage by 1/2/3/4/5%. (Previously had a 20/40/60/80/100% chance to apply the Earth and Moon Effect) Buff Duration also decreased to 15 seconds.The Good:
* Eclipse (Tier 9) changed so when you critically hit with Starfire, you have a 33/66/100% chance of increasing damage done by Wrath by 10%. (Previously 20/40/60% chance)
* Improved Moonkin Aura (Tier 7) gives 3% spell haste for all ranks and now you gain 5/10/15% of your spirit as additional spell damage.
* Improved Faerie Fire (Tier 7) increases your critical strike chance against targets afflicted with Faerie Fire by 1/2/3%.
* Nature's Splendor (Tier 3) changed to - When you cast Moonfire, Insect Swarm, Rejuvenation, Regrowth or Lifebloom you have a 33/66/100% chance to increase it's duration by 3 sec.
This is definitely an improvement over the old build. Earth and Moon and Imp Moonkin Aura gained buffs that will increase Moonkin DPS.
The best change is to Imp Moonkin Aura for a couple of reason. This is a talent we were going to pick up in the old build, so this is a free buff. Also, anything that boosts our damage in relation to spirit is great because we are going to be seeing a lot of spirit on our gear. This makes up for the nerf to Lunar Guidance a little bit. A lot of people on the forums had been asking to get Crit rating, but I think most will be happy with this also.
Beyond that we have a definite reason to not only pick up Earth and Moon but put 5 points in it for a little additional scaling.
The Bad:
The biggest issue is still bloat. I have seen no indication that any talent costs have been reduced and these talent changes make just increase the number of desirable talents. In the last build I wouldn't have put only 3 points in E&M, and none in Eclipse or Imp Faerie Fire. So, Moonkin now have 8 more places to put talent points we don't have.
This is an issue Moonkin have been stressing since the first alpha build, and with each build it seems to just get worse. I know Blizzard has said they are going to take a look at it and probably shave off a couple of points here or there, but that was several weeks and several builds ago. Its time for them to do something about it. In my current mock raid build, I have 3 points left with 5 viable talents that have 12 possible talent points, And that excludes Imp FF. I'm not saying I should get all 5 talents, but forcing me to drop 3 or 4 of them isn't reasonable either.
Improved Faerie Fire was the least improved in this build. The increased crit is nice, but it does not address the core issue of the talent. The duration of the talent is to short and and it is much easier for another class to apply. Even with the additional crit, Imp Faerie Fire will still be a DPS loss for Moonkin. According to my quick math a rotation SF rotation that included Imp FF would have 1.1% less DPS then an SF rotation that did not include Imp FF. (This assumes the 3% hit is provided by Misery.)
The problem is the duration. Since it is only 40 seconds we cant get enough SF or Wrath casts off to let the Crit compensate for GCD loss let alone improve our DPS. Blizzard needs to increase Faerie Fires Duration or give us some way to refresh it without switching from our damage rotation. As is, no should moonkin will pick up this talent as long as there is an Shadow Priest in raid.
The Unknown:
I think the Jury is still out on Eclipse. The reduction in cooldown and reduced randomness are definite improvements. However, the buff's duration was cut in half to 15 seconds. Also, the question of how Wrath and Starfire relate is still unanswered. Is there enough of a contrast to warrant switching spells?
My Mock Raid Build:
As I mentioned before I have created a new Mock level 80 raid build. Here is the link.
As you can see I still have 3 points that I am unsure how to spend. Here are the choices:
Dreamstate (3 pts) - A lot has been done to improve our mana situation, but with potion sickness I am unsure if this is an expendable talent. If I have mana issues I may be forced to put the points here.
Owlkin Frenzy (3 pts) - This is obviously a great PvP talent, but has some potential in PvE as well. If WotLK raids are designed like BT and SWP with a lot of raid wide damage, the the push back resistance and extra damage will be very helpful.
Eclipse (3 pts) - As I said before, I am very up in the air on this talent. I don't know if it has been improved or not. I need to sit down and do some math to figure it out.
Force of Nature (1 pts) - I love the trees, but the are hardly an ideal raid talent. In WotLK they will be a little more controllable, but they will still be weak and situationally useful. On top of that I have never gotten really proficient at casting the spell. I always seem to get a little out of range. The plus side is they can do significant damage that is both threat free and mana efficient if used correctly.
Gale Winds (2 pts) - I would love to pick up this talent. I hate getting killed by locks and mages on the damage meters during AoE pulls. In Hyjal, Holly Paladins can do similar damage to what I can do because the run in and Consecrate. The problem is we don't know how important AoE is going to be in WotLK. Right now I file this talent under nice but situational.
Conclusion:
This is a nice start, because there are some very nice changes here. I think most moonkin though would agree with me and say that a few more changes are needed. Something needs to be done about bloat, and Imp Faerie Fire needs to be tweaked. Eclipse may need to be tweaked also, but I will wait until I have done the math to say for sure one way or the other.
Let me know what you think. How would you design a raid build with these changes? How does this change your outlook on the tree if at all?
Edit: I saw the change in Eclipse's duration and edited some of my comments.
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