Tuesday, November 24, 2009

Patch Notes: Nerf, Nerf, Buff

Blizzard released a minor update to patch 3.3 to the PTR and it has three changes that will impact Moonkin. None of them are really huge, but I'm sure there will be some inflated opinions about them floating around the forums. Lets take a look.

Nerf:

Item - Druid T8 Balance 2P Bonus - Increases the bonus granted by Eclipse for Starfire and Wrath by 7%. (Down from 15%)
We knew 2T8 was over powered when they changed the way Eclipse worked in Patch 3.2. Many of us expected a nerf then, but it has persisted and dominated a lot of the recent Moonkin discussions. As much as I hate to see moonkin nerfed in anyway this one was needed. Every day there are several posts asking if 2T8 or 4T9 is better on the official forums and some of the theorycrafters on EJ are speculating that it might be best to use 2T8 well into ICC. Well that discussion is effectively ended.

I've valued 2T8 as a 6% DPS increase in the past. Others have valued it a little bit higher. Either way, this nerf will cut it more then in half and bring it in line with most of our set bonuses. The stat upgrades from T9 and T10 will guarantee that the higher tiers of gear will be upgrades.

Ultimately this nerf doesn't really worry me much. If your going to be raiding ICC this will have very little impact on you since you will have better gear available. This just makes sure you want to make the shift.

Nerf:
Eclipse: This effect will not activate again within 15 seconds of either type of Eclipse effect firing, in addition to the existing 30-second cooldown for each type of Eclipse.

Good bye WiseEclipse. You served us well and we will miss you.

For those of you that may be confused, this changes is aimed directly at the addon WiseEclipse that allows us to change proc Eclipse. With this change it is basically useless. Once again this change is expected by a lot of people. Even when I first posted on WiseEclipse I said it felt a little dirty and exploitish.

Unfortunately it was a real DPS increase. Therefore this nerf is a litter more tangible then the one above.

Buff:
Item - Druid T10 Balance 4P Bonus - Your critical strikes from Starfire and Wrath cause the target languish for an additional 7% of your spell's damage over 4 sec. (Up from 5%)

This may not sound like much but it is actually a pretty significant buff. I did some quick napkin math using a 50% crit chance. If the set bonus increased your crit damage by 5% the total DPS increase would have been around 3.38%. At a 7% crit damage increase this set bonus will increase DPS by about 4.73%. This combined with the nerf to 2T8 will probably mean that 4T10 is the best available set bonus for Moonkin in WotLK.

TL:DR

All in all, I'm sure there will be some people that are very upset by these changes. I disagree.

The Eclipse change sucks a little because it was a straight DPS increase, but it was kind of shady in the way it did it. No one should be surprised that it was changed.

The 2T8 change is long overdue, and it isn't really a nerf if you're raiding ICC. The T10 set bonuses may not be as good as the old 2T8 but the additional stats would have closed the gap. This nerf just insures that we will upgrade our gear.

The 4T10 change is nice, and more significant then it appears. I would also like to see them change the 2T10 set bonus to something a little more significant, but I doubt that will happen.

49 comments:

Anonymous said...

im raiding with 2t9 and 2t8 now and im wondering. should i get 4t9 before patch hits ? if im gona stay 2t8 in 3.3 start my dps isn't gona crast rly hard?

Parasha - Aszune EU

Aeiedil said...

I agree with your sentiments on the T8 nerf, it was needed and I am happy that they did it now. It means that the Moonkin are able to get their Tier 9 ready for Icecrown before they nerf, rather than if they had nerfed it at the start of TOTC and knocked our dps backwards immediately.

Likewise the Wiseeclipse-aimed nerf was needed. Together these 2 end a lot of the posts speculating on this and that in a very definite way.

Parasha, I would be advising to get your 4 piece tier 9 ready and/or start using it because when 3.3 hits you will see a DPS decrease if you are still using tier 8. Personally I have been using 4 piece tier 9 for the last few weeks and have not had any negative effects, I have been finding myself topping the charts as always (well, top 5 :) )

Le_Chimp said...

What I'm upset about is i can no longer cancel solar eclipse and try and get a lunar eclipse during Hero any more

Aeiedil said...

To be fair, with Heroism's 30s duration and the 30s eclipse rotation (ok maybe 35-40s when you include a spell or 2 failing to proc) it is quite likely you will have a SF eclipse during heroism more often than not I reckon

Starbringer said...

I don't like the nerf in eclipse. It's gonna be a thing that will still hit us after 3.3. The nerf in T8 was ok and the buff T10 is nice, but they affect only the people who use the sets. For the moonkin who use T9, it's only a nerf. And no, i don't like it.

Starbringer - Warsong US

Meleetree said...

Regarding the nerf to Eclipse, that seems to be only about preventing the use of WiseEclipse. I haven't been moonkin for months, so I have never tried WiseEclipse, but I would probably have liked it if I was still a moonkin. My sole reason for respeccing and leaving moonkin behind was because I was so frustrated with my dependency on RNG. I could play really well (or really bad), yet it would not always be reflected in my dps output, if I had just happened to be unlucky with eclipse procs. At the end of the day, I gave up being a moonkin, since I like to have a high amount of control over how I play.

It seems that when the moonkin players out there find ways of trying to control their number one dps increasing ability, Blizzard is keen to make sure this fails. This is no surprise really. I just wish Blizzard would instead reconsider if maybe the way they designed moonkin dps should be different.

As I read this 'neft', it won't effect any players not using WiseEclipse. I just wonder how many of those are around at the moment :)

Sidelinekin said...

Graylo, shame on you and the community for using a mod that you felt/knew was exploitive. Most Moonkin parses I've seen are well below 95% of mage DPS already. You've drawn a nerf that increases that spread. I wonder how long till more of us lose our raid spots. I've already been put on notice waiting for the live server data.

Thanks for leading more of us to re-roll or move to lower progression guilds.

adguy196 said...

Hybrid tax just slapped us across the face.

I don't know about most of you but I can give 8k mages a run for their money.

Funny thing to note that is on the low end of true mage dps. WE have a 13k mage in our guild just to show how high their dps cap is. Is the hybrid tax that extreme? My god Blizz you just rammed the nerf dildo up our @ss.

Primary said...

@Sidelinekin

Really?

1) If you used WE, you should have done so well-knowing that it would be killed in the future. No one keeps their mouth shut about it nor should they. Enjoy it while it lasts but be prepared for the change.

2) If you didn't use WE because of some kind of moral conflict, then it's a non-issue and this "increased spread" is non-existant because everything is where it should have been.

cowandbones said...

As a dedicated Boomkin raider this both makes me happy and makes me sad.

The happiness comes because gear decisions won't require 2 hours of theorycrafting before a raid just incase an item drops, or a get my hands on a trophy.

Saddness comes from being nerfed. I didn't use WiseEclipse, I'm more of a Shadow's Eclipse monitor guy for the pure reason of being a stand & spam Boomkin, with some praying for proc's. :-D

This is making me wanna level my priest a littrle faster now. Patooie.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I quit WoW about a month ago but I still keep coming back to read blogs and mmo-champion.com, it helps to know what's going on when you want to sell your account. Anyhow...

Back when I did play I can say that I was one of the best moonkin on Kil'Jaeden, one of the best servers and I can say that I competed with players almost equally (Let's be honest we're moonkin there is still a gap between rogues warlocks and the bunch when you play to your prime). However, this gap wasn't huge, it could be luck determined even, but now...now? I remember Wise Eclipse being something like a 300-400 dps increase when I first turned it on. 300-400 doesn't seem like much out of about 6500, but it really is. I think this set in stone me selling my account or at LEAST holding out till cataclysm. (FIGHT THE MAN)

-Artofficial, Chimono, Bealtaine, Shrepto, OUT.

Sidelinekin said...

@ Primary:
It's still a nerf whether you used WE or not. Instead of just banning the mod which would have only changed those using it, Blizz adds a nifty cooldown affecting all of us. We are about halfway back to how Eclipse used to be before we needed the buff.

Graylo said...

Ok, as I expected some of you are overreacting. Lets try and put a couple of things in perspective.

1. WiseEclipse was awesome, and I don't want it to be fixed, but we all new that it was causing Eclipse to work in a way that wasn't intended. While the impact is a nerf, it's not really an intention to nerf Moonkin. I'm sure blizzard views it more as a bug fix.

2. Yes, If you don't ever wear a peice of T10 then the change to 2T8 is a definate nerf, but if you never wear a piece of T10 why does it matter? Every tier of WotLK raiding has been very accessable, and the base level T10 will be purchaseable with Emblems. Heck, you don't even need to step foot into ICC to get Emblems of Frost. Basically, if you won't have access to T10 gear then you won't need the current version of 2T8 either.

@Sidelinekin

1. You might want to review your logic, because you don't make any sense. Why should I feel shame for using WE? Yes, WE caused Eclipse to work in a way that was not intended, but the use of WE has not caused blizzard to nerf us. Their are just breaking the addon. This is the same as if we never used it.

2. I've heard your type of Doom and Gloom proclimations before, and I'm not buying it. I raided through TBC as a moonkin so I know about having to fight for a raid spot. We are not back were we were in TBC. If your at risk of losing your raid spot you may want to ask you self a couple of questions.

Is there something I can do to improve? Is my guild being unreasonable?

No good guild is going to force a good player out of the guild because Blizzard slightly nerfs them. If your guild is threatening you with a removal then you may want to consider the other possibilities.

@adguy196

What fight are you talking about? No mage is hitting 13K DPS on a normal boss fight? Your numbers are irrelevent unless you can give them context. I've hit 14k and 15k on Hodir, but that is Hodir.

Graylo said...

@Sidelinekin

Blizzard did not add a cooldown to Eclipse. Period.

The Eclipse buff is 15 seconds. The "new" cooldown is 15 seconds. We've never been able to proc one Eclipse buff while the other one is up. So, with the old version of Eclipse the 15 second buff was basically a 15 second cooldown by itself.

IF YOU DID NOT USE WISEECLIPSE THIS CHANGE HAS NO IMPACT ON YOU.

This change only prevents people from cancelling eclipse and procing two buffs back to back.

Kaldrill said...

If you can't have access to a 4t10 because you want to play as a casual raider then you will only see the drop in DPS. Using 2t8 and 2t9 and WE allowed me to be at least as efficient as other DPS, I will always be below them in 3.3...

Daedalus said...

I knew that WiseEclipse was going to be killed eventually. It saddens me, but it's not what makes me angry. What makes me angry is that when rogues were in a *very* similar situation recently with their poison-swapping mod, they got a buff to remove the *need* for the mod at the same time that the mod was killed. We just got straight-up nerfed. It's the sheer disparity of the situation that kills me.

Chris said...

I'm a bit confused as to why they handled the WiseEclipse nerf so much differently than the recent Rogue weapon swapping add-on. With that add-on(which like eclipse was almost required to stay at a competitive level) they decided not to nerf it, but bake it into the class so they would no longer have to use the add-on. I'm getting close to full Best in Slot gear at this point and this mod accounts for quite a bit of dps for me(about 800 dps last i tested), i'm sad to see it go but as you said Graylo, it was to be expected. I had hoped they would find a way to address this without swinging the nerfbat.

Starrets said...

Wow Sideline. Surely it's not all that bad. While I hate to see our class take any nerfs, sometimes they are needed to set up even better buffs and ensure there is logical progression to gear. I'm the GM and RL so maybe I'm jaded, but I couldn't imagine dumping folks for slight DPS nerfs (hell, we even raid with a couple Spriests). Granted we aren't cutting edge anymore, but we downed KJ back in the day so we know how to play.

If you are at that bleeding edge of raid progression, I would hope your leadership is smart enough to know how the game goes. If they aren't and play the tank of the month games or stack 20 mages, is that the guild you want? If that is your type of guild, then well you number is up I guess...and it's really not that critical a nerf. Move on to 4pc 258 which is surely what you have access to at that level (and prolly should have already).

Aeiedil said...

I'd like to say that with all the doom and gloom, has anyone stopped to consider that the patch is not yet final. Blizzard have tweaked our set bonus so much already.

As you say rogues got a buff when their similar addon was broken (intentionally). I don't think it is too much to hope that perhaps Blizzard are intending to view the effect of this change on the PTR Moonkin before evaluating possible changes to Moonkin to make up for the "nerf" (note quotes).

We are far from bottom of the pack, we are just not right at the top. I look forward to the next batch of patch notes with a sense of hope that there will be something nice for us in there.

lissanna said...

You get emblems of frost from doing the random daily heroic. You can easily get 2 T10 & 2 T9... which means you can actually upgrade your gear from the T8 set. You can also just pick up the 4-piece Tier 9 set pretty easily, with that 4-piece T9 bonus now probably being more of an upgrade for you. Getting the 4-piece T9 will be super easy in 3.3 because everything is going to drop either T9 or T10 badges.

Kamiken said...

I am actually really glad they are nerfing the 2 piece t8 set. It was a crutch we were using to stay competitive. With the changes I have hope that blizzard will take a look at a few things that are holding moonkins back and do something about it.

kungaloosh said...

Do you think it's time to move on from 2T8 + 2T9 to having 4T9 for ICC raiding or just stick with the 2&2 until 2 or 4 T10?

Anonymous said...

I must admit I resent these nerfs. Both the T8(2) and WE were things that gave our brutally RNG dps a little bit of consistency. It almost seems Blizz wants us to be recount yo-yos.

I've never liked the "not-as-intended" nerfs either. Seems one gets punished for being resourceful. It's one thing if we're OP, something else to get hit just b/c we're not doing it the way they want us to.

But as mentioned, there (hopefully)will be more to the story. If they throw us a bone, all will be forgiven. :)

Wild Colors said...

We're a hybrid - if we are keeping up with the mages, it's b/c we're playing well and the mages are playing poorly. On the other hand, the mages can't off-heal if something goes badly wrong, nor decurse or abolish poison. I do 10-mans, and the hybrid advantage may signify more there than in 25s where others are always around to cover these eventualities, but I assure you we bring more to the table than pure dps. Blizz has said our dps is supposed to be slightly lower because of our other advantages. I see nothing wrong with rogues getting a slight buff and druids getting a slight nerf, when you look at it this way. (I'm also sick of holding on to the 2t8...)

adguy196 said...

@ Graylo

Our lead mage hits 20k+ on hodir. The number I gave you was for twins as the current max dps during a fight in togc. Regardless of buffing I was showing the ceiling of a mage is way higher then boomkin.

AE for anub togc is 7-8k for me and 9-10k for mages.

I'm not really crying about my personal numbers. I'm actually happy where I am in regard to the boomkin raiding community.

I can link our logs if you'd like.

CBGstylee said...

Gray while i agree with everything you said. If EJ thought 2t8 was good enough to serve us into ICC and not 4t9, then why not buff the 4t9 to compensate for the loss of the 2t8? roll some of that dps what we needed into what we will be using to acquire the t10.

Also why no comment on the comparisons being made between the rogue weapon swapping and the eclipse buff canceling? rogues had an issue and had it rolled into a buff so that it would be used properly and not exploited. Using wise eclipse helped us maximize the last cast of the cycle and helped us proc the next cycle quickly, and has that not been a huge problem for moonkins? proccing eclipse quickly? why not create some kind of functionality to help solve the issue that WE was designed for.

that nerf only hurts the moonkin who were good enough to take advantage of the extra cast it afforded us.

Kamiken said...

I think a more elegant solution would be to allow us a little bit of control over our eclipse buffs.

My suggestion would probably to be Make Lunar eclipse a button with a 30 second cooldown to press which will increase our Starfire crits by 30% for 15 seconds and this puts a 15 second debuff on us when it runs out which will allow our starfires crits to proc a solar eclipse which would give us 15 seconds of 30% more wrath damage.

I think this would solve 2 problems at 1 time. It makes our dps a little bit less RNG by giving us control over one of the largest dps increases of the eclipse buffs while maintaining some RNG involved with Eclipse. It also allows us to time a lunar eclipse when we want it with a heroism to allow us to maximize our dps increase during that time. It will also help us on heavy movement fights where we know we have to move so we can time our dps increases based on our environment.

This is obviously the most elegant change to eclipse I could think of and would hopefully solve multiple issues with this mechanic.

Anonymous said...

I agree that WE should have been fixed, but they should have buffed us to compensate like they did rogues. The difference? Rogues are one of the top three dps classes while we're near the bottom, along with shadow priests who are getting massive buffs. I'm still hoping something goes in to help us before the patch goes live.

Wild Colors said...

The repeated comparison to rogues is a bad one. Rogues are a pure dps class. They are supposed to have higher dps than us, so when something goes wrong and blizzard needs to fool around with the mechanics to fix it, they tend to go with a slight buff rather than a slight nerf. We are a hybrid class. We're supposed to be towards the bottom of the damage charts, assuming everyone is playing perfectly. This is because we can do other things, like healing, to offer greater utility to a raid. Thus, when something goes wrong and blizzard has to fool around with the mechanics to fix it, they tend to go with a slight nerf rather than a slight buff. This is normal and largely appropriate, assuming that we don't drop much more than 5% below the sustained dps of the rogues, mages, and locks among us. When Blizz gives some heals to the rogues, we need to start to worry...till then, we're doing fine.

CBGstylee said...

@Wild Colors

I would say that we're already outside of that 5% margin before the nerfs. Plus please remember that even GC used that as an example not as a hard rule.

the point of comparing us to the rogues is where they became resourceful with their weapon swapping, the devs decided that it should be incorporated into the game rather than outsourced to a mod. Why shouldnt we get the same treatment? all WE does is allow us to chain our procs together much more efficiently by using server latency to our advantage on ONE cast. why doesnt the dev team give us something that makes things easier for us. why not change the coding so the buff is applied when the cast begins then? so even if the proc falls off if you began a cast you could still proc the next cycle immediately thus not wasting any buff uptime which is what WE does, but in a diffent manner.

i found my rotations to be much smoother and more effective when using WE. are you saying i should be stuck in a solar rotation during heroism? i shouldnt be able to cancel my own buff for a chance to take advantage of the proc that actually works to great effect with hero? now i am forced into 15/15 no matter the situation

Anonymous said...

@Wild Colors
On the other hand, the mages can't off-heal if something goes badly wrong, nor decurse or abolish poison

Yeah, mages can't decurse..

Lilija said...

Actually if we are talking about mage dps and Twins - this isn't a good fight to compare dps since the outcome comes from the buffs and running times than class itself.

And well, I recall on few fights I did some nice magelike numbers there too. Sure I got lucky but it is there in moonkin potential.

Anyway, I do notice that my fellow guildies start to outdps me more and more but then again PvE isn't about dps only. If someone is a kind of player who always knows where to stand and where not. When to stop dps and when to start, then your actual place on meters doesn't matter (as long as you aren't ofc miles behind everyone else but in current class balance it comes from the player/gear - not class potential).

In a hardcore guild moonkins aren't stackable since our scaling isn't the best in the world so in the end we are taken mostly for our buffs but then again a moonkin is the best caster buff package there is. But personally I really don't see a reason to not have a moonkin. Especially if a guild already has one and he is a good player, they would be out of their minds to suddenly dump him cause he scales bit worse.

Xaktsaroth said...

I dont got much problems with what they have done to moonkins this patch. Rather the opposite its a bit annoying what they have not done.

For example blast wave the mage ability got its mana cost reduced by 21%, typhoon only got a 4% reduction.

More and more spells/abilities for many classes benefits from haste while moonkins haste issue is still untouched. If nothing is done to adress moonkin scaling I belive we will fall behind in damage in ICC by alot since the only noticable damage increase is from pure spelldmg upgrades.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand! Moonkin isn't the best dpser, it should need buff not nerf.

equinox said...

I agree that we are a hybrid class, however try explaining that to raid leaders when you try to pug. I have saved a raid's butt on several occasions with everything from BResing, abolish poison, decursing, FF to tranquility and it never fails that at the end of the day they post the DMG meter and because I spent the time playing my "hybrid" class, I don't rank at the top of DPS and they don't let me in on the gear. When raids call for DPS they want DPS, they don't give a hoot about your ability to support, they expect the healers to do their job and the DPS to do theirs. With each patch Blizz is moving druids closer and closer to obsolescence. First Feral DPS, then Resto, now Boomkin. We have yet to get any real power for any of our specs.

Anonymous said...

So, in essence we are trading one overpowered setbonus for another overpowered setbonus. That IS a problem imo.
Yes, our dps will be fine, but balancing around setbonuses is never a good idea.

Voink said...

Equinox,

You probably need to raid more in guild then, or find a different one. Raid leaders who judge by dps meters alone will be the ones with wipe after wipe on farm content when they don't bring the people who understand fights.

Smart raid leaders look at more then the meters - they look for things like dispels, interupts, raid makeup (what mage or warlock doesn't want a moonkin along?) damage taken, and yes, battle resses. Just yesterday one of our alt moonkins saved the day on anub with a tank battle res when things went to hell.

Ian Darke said...

QQ incoming:

I recently was reading up on a thread that did class/spec DPS comparisons from a good sized sample from ToGC25 to determine how various class/specs were performing. The point of the analysis was really to call to attention how rough shadow priests have it now.

However, the analysis also showed some real weaknesses in Elem/Enh shamans and moonkins.

I have a well geared boomkin (one of the better on my server) and rarely run across people playing my class that outperform me in DPS.

That said, if I'm playing with a solid group of people (i.e. no pugging it), I've found myself falling farther and farther down the DPS charts.

Buffs aside, I no longer feel that the DPS of many of the hybrid specs is competitive. If I was running a raid, I'd choose two mages over two moonkins.

I buy into the logic that pure classes should be better than hybrids and think the "5% guidelines" is reasonable. I think we are way under that right now.

I started my druid as a feral and later found that I preferred ranged DPS (staring at the bosses rear the entire fight gets old and makes it hard to understand what is going on in the fight). When I go into ToC/ToGC and see ferals with gear not as good as mine pulling more than 1K DPS better than me, its making me really rethink my choice. :(

Anonymous said...

Wiseclipse mechanic needed a fix.
T8 2-piece needed a nerf.
Boomkin DPS needs a buff.
Boomkin DPS needs on-call burst.

Suggestion:
Change lunar eclipse to an 'on call' ability. Nothing else changes. Normal 15 sec rules, cooldon applies. Normal solar eclipse trigger and no lunar proc solar trick via cancel cast.

This addresses:
* boomkin on-call dps (eg. portals/shields/etc)
* lunar procs right before movement (well can minimise it a little)
* nature's grace - as wrath dmg is reduced from say 30% to 20% with this change, the haste cap is not as much of a penalty
* pvp to a small extent - on call lunar eclipse is not bad (altho solar would probably be preferrred)
* retaining the eclipse mechanic
* retaining the 'interesting choice' - do you wear reduced DPS for a few secs to delay lunar eclipse for an upcoming shield/etc.
* reduces RNG a little, whilst empowering boomkins
* provides a small DPS buff as now all of lunar eclipse is utilised (versus a second or so lost at the start)

Bovismaximus said...

I have to admit, many of you that are complaining about our damage output being lower than pure DPS classes are missing one VERY important point: how much more dps is the ENTIRE RAID dealing by just having a Moonkin present? With the possible exception of shammies, is there any other spec in the game that offers THIS many raid-wide buffs?

- Additional spell hit, crit, and haste
- 12% increased spell damage to target (which also allows locks to use CoD or CoA)
- 5% reduced armor
- 3% hit debuff
- All stats increase
- Battle res

We are the ultimate raid utility class. Any RL that does not prioritize a spot for a moonkin just because they are lower on the DPS charts is a fool that is more concerned about personal performance than that of the raid as a whole.

Stop being a slave to the meters... start thinking about your contributions to the group.

lior said...

(Quoted from guy above)

- Additional spell hit, crit, and haste
- 12% increased spell damage to target (which also allows locks to use CoD or CoA)
- 5% reduced armor
- 3% hit debuff
- All stats increase
- Battle res

Stop being a slave to the meters... start thinking about your contributions to the group.

(End quote)

Now imagine if your raid has at least one feral druid in it.

That brings our utility down to;

- Additional spell hit, crit, and haste
- 12% increased spell damage to target (which also allows locks to use CoD or CoA)
- 3% hit debuff
- Battle res

Imagine if there's one other Moonkin;

- Battle res

The problem is that as soon as there's one other moonkin in the raid, the desire to bring a 2nd is much reduced.

Blizzard have said they'd buff us in some other way, but haven't determined which yet, or even when it will be implemented.

Lareia said...

Well, I did expect the WiseEclipse change and the tier set change, this doesn't mean I like it though. As people have already said, if there is already one moonkin in a raid, you really don't need another one. Kind of makes me paranoid about seeing other druids specing moonkin :-p

I wonder if a change to Eclipse, where after fishing for solar or lunar Eclipse and getting it, it won't start it's 15 sec duration until you actually cast a wrath or starfire, would be helpful enough or too OP. In movement fights I can see it helping a lot.

Well, now just to wait and see how they plan on offsetting the change.

Bovismaximus said...

Of course, an additional class of the same type reduces the desire to bring you along, that is true for almost every hybrid... I was responding to those individuals who are saying they would rather take a mage than a boomkin to a raid. Every raid should have at least one of us.

Personally, I would find it extremely rare to find myself in a raid with another boomkin, however I understand that may not be the norm.

Anonymous said...

GC said there would be an offset!
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/21333744481-rogues-get-a-buff--moonkins-get-a-nerf.html

Anonymous said...

ok rogues are pure dps class so they need to deliever more dps then druids since we are hybrids(!)... what people never discuss is all other classes ie rogues bring utility to raids as well. For example yes as a moonkin i can BR a person meanwhile rogue can do massive interrupting... i can do good aoe but think about 25m hc anub if you continue aoe'ing all the time you'll get oom in no time, but a rogue can just wait 2 secs to refresh up if he has 0 energy, but i'd do shit if i have 0 mana... mages bring utility as well they can survive a big incoming dmg just by freezing, well i can just die so you saw mages taking dmg intentionally on a steelbreaker hard mode fight, isnt that utility? hunters can MD, can FD can do massive CC bring nice raid buff but still counts as a pure dps...

i believe there is no class with "NO utility" so every class brings their buffs and utilities on the raid, why are we supposed to do less damage then them? why do we need a nerf when we start getting closer?

Anonymous said...

Numenor

Sean said...

The T8 nerf needed, Eclipse was coming at some point and we ALL knew it. I hate it because yes I am able to keep my damage in line with the 8k mages and rogues, but now the loss of the extra Eclipses and the RNG BS will mean we need more luck and fights that don't mean we need to run around and cast.

Dentex said...

Am i wrong, or they didnt nerf the 2t8 in patch notes?

Dentex, Dragonblight

rabbitter said...

all this banter about the Moonkin 2 t8 gear is as if we are op in pve in some way or manner is really annoying, we are usually around 10th in 25 raids unless we're aoe'ing whelps..blizz has made our class put out some of the lowest single target dps compared to clothy's of any kind and now hunters in icc. It seems to me blizz is pushing peeps away from riding a boomkin, why I'm not sure but it being my only 80, it's very depressing. I'm not even bringing up pvp...watch any fight and EVERYONE is gunning for the boomkin..not because it does damage but because it's so damn easy to get a kb stat.