Wednesday, May 12, 2010

WoW Lacks Significant Rewards

If you ask a progression raider why they raid, a majority of the time the answer will be that they love the challenge, the team work or something of that nature. I think those answers are 100% true, but there is also another reason why progression raiders raid and it is often left out of the conversation. Many progression raiders also like the rewards gained from their high level of achievement. Unfortunately, these rewards are being devalued by Blizzard. In this post I will look at what makes a good reward and explain why the current rewards are inadequate.

What is a Good Reward?

In my opinion, there are two things that can make a reward valuable: Utility and Rarity.

Utility: Isn't a reward better if it makes life a little easier. I leveled the Ardent Crusade and all of my faction reps to exalted purely to get the squire who could check my mail and look at my bank. It same saves me time, and possibly my raids time if I forget something in my bank. In fact I no longer carry my Shadow Resist gear around on the off chance we do ToGC. If I need it I can quickly pull it out of the bank.

That said, utility can be a slippery slope. If you make the reward to powerful it goes from being a reward to being a need, and many people will feel compelled to do the task just for the reward.

Rarity: There is a reason why Kungen from Ensidia still wears the Scarab Lord title. It is the rarest of all titles. It represents a significant achievement from Vanilla WoW. Only a few hundred people in the world got the title, and even the people who cheezed it on new realms had to put in a lot of time to get it. A very rare reward gives the player a way to display their accomplishment. Not only that it signals to other players and guilds your quality and may help you get in a guild or a pug group.

The Current Rewards:

Gear: When I made my comment two weeks ago that Heroic raiders should get first crack at the new content several commenters said that Heroic Gear should be enough of a reward for doing Heroic content. I disagree completely.

There are several big issues as to why Gear should not be seen as a reward. The first being utility. Gear is the primary example of a reward having to much utility. Gevlon has proven with his undergeared project that you don't have to have the best gear to progress, but I think even he would agree that it makes it a lot easier. Gear in the long run reduces the skill needed to complete content and I have been in raids where the GM calls it because we don't have the gear to complete the content even though we had better gear then the people go completed it before attunements were lifted.

Gear is just to powerful. If it is handed out only as a reward for an accomplishment it creates large barriers for entry. This is what caused the big shift in Blizzard gear philosophy in TBC when they let BT level gear be purchase able with badges and had Kara level gear drop from 5man instances. In WotLK, Blizzard has made gear even more available, and this leads me to the second reason why gear is a bad reward.

Gear is to easy to obtain to be a significant reward. In a matter of weeks a player can get a full set of T9 gear gear with out ever setting foot into a raid instance. It is theoretically possible for someone to do the same with T10 gear. Given how accessible the normal mode of ICC is a new player can have a very good set of gear in just a few months. Progression raiders will have slightly better gear, but the performance advantage is small and it looks the same as it's lower level equivalent.

Titles: Titles can be a very good reward. As I mentioned above the Scarab Lord title is still highly valued and I have been very proud of several titles over the course of WotLK. The problem with titles though is that they aren't removed from the game. My proudest achievement from WotLK so far is completing Immortal and therefore the T7 meta achievement before Ulduar was released. The Immortal title is still pretty rare, but that is due more to a lack of effort then any great barrier. Any group with half a brain, some preparation and ICC level gear could get Immortal now with a little effort. The same goes for the Sarth 3D titles. Both were very significant in T7, now there are tons of alts picking them up when ever Sarth becomes the weekly quest.

So, titles do have significant value at least temporarily, but most lose their value after it is possible for players to over power the content. There is a reason that the server first titles are so popular, and there is a reason why I still where the Ardent Defender title. I won't claim that my accomplishment is as big as a 10man strict guild getting it, but it does show that I completed some very hard content at the appropriate gear level.

Very Fast Mounts (310%): If you had asked me a year ago, I would have told you these were the perfect reward. I feel for the guilds that were not able to complete the T7 meta in time, but no one can deny that the Black Proto-drakes show that you beat the T7 content in level appropriate gear. In addition to representing a significant accomplishment, they also allowed you to get places a little faster and that is huge for an impatient person like me.

Unfortunately, Blizzard has allowed these rewards to lose their significance and in Cataclysm Blizzard will be taking away the utility completely. Call me a hypocrite if you like. I know that I got my Ironbound Proto-drake after ToC was released, but the fact that they are still available a year after Ulduar's release has made them nothing more then a pretty picture. With ICC gear pugs are able to over power all of the content with a little prep and organization.

Not only that, but Blizzard said this in the Twitter Developer chat a few weeks ago:
Our current plan, is that in Cataclysm, you can learn a new rank of flying that lets all flying mounts move at 310% (even current 280% mounts). That will probably be as fast as mounts will ever get. We don’t like it that when you get a 310% mount that you stop using your old ones. (src)
This could mean one of two things.

1. When you complete a meta achievement you get a "Tome of Very Fast Flying" that increases your riding skill to 525 and allows all of your flying mounts to go a 310% speed.

2. The 310% flying speed will be purchasable with gold like the other levels of riding skill.

I really hope that it is the first. If it's the second, then Blizzard has just taken the best part about the meta rewards and given them to everyone with time.


I can hear the groans now, and I'm sure I will turn off a few more readers my supposed Elitism. However, I think accomplishment should be rewarded and I like to be recognized for my accomplishments. Unfortunately Blizzard has taken steps to undermine those rewards in WotLK.
Gear is tool and should not be seen as a reward by anyone. Otherwise it would have to little value or create a huge barrier to entry and prevent people from accessing content. Titles work well as reward temporarily, but ultimately lose their value due to people being able to over power the content. Mounts much like titles made a great reward in the beginning, but now are losing their value because over geared players can complete the meta achievements just a little thought and planning.


Duskstorm said...

I agree completely.

They should:

1. Put a meta achievement in every single raid that takes in account the ilvl of the gear of all the players. Only give out titles as a reward for this achievement.

2. Keep the color of gear that drops in Hard mode content purple, and make the Normal mode and heroic 5man drops blues. Hanging out in Stormwind epicced out should mean that you do hard modes.

I want purple gear to mean I achieved something epic. I'm fine with the blues that drop from the normal modes of the next tier dungeons being as good or better than my epics from this tier's hardmode. If I wear purple, it should mean I did something hard.

Anonymous said...

I want to start out by saying I highly respect you as a figure in the moonkin community. You do a lot of great work that helps to inform people both old and new to the moonkin style of play, and I know you take time to answer e-mails from your readers (we've exchanged a few in the past). I know when something changes that impacts moonkin here is the first place I come to for a substantive look at the details and ramifications of what the changes will do.

That being said, your latest string of posts (sans the one about the alpha leaks, another great insightful post imo) has made me not want to read the site anymore. I understand it's your blog and you can post whatever you like but the latest series of posts seems to be tailored towards instigating anger rather than presenting information and promoting rationed debate. To me WoW has always been about being informed about my class/role, doing my best, and enjoying myself. Your blog posts used to aid that. Recently though the vibe I get when I come here is that I should be super concerned if I am getting enough reward for what I'm doing, or I should be concerned if people above me are getting enough reward or too little reward or people below me are getting too much or too little. I try to think through why this should be important to me but honestly, it really isn't. We may just be on completely different levels.

It would appear the state of progression raiding is a topic of great importance to you, and so your bringing your concerns to the fore through your posts is not something I would ever condemn. As more Cataclysm information becomes available I hope this site can continue to be my go-to place for info and discussion about the best moonkin rotations, gearings, and talent choices. The current focus however, is just not for me.

-Thedrun, US Stormrage

Smiles said...

I must say that I agree with you whole-heartedly. Having recently entered progression raiding myself, I can see how much planning, time, and effort goes into downing difficult content. That kind of dedication should have its own unique rewards.

However, I also think that Duskstorm is correct. Make some acheievements only available with tier-appropriate gear. Ulduar had several achievements like that, though unfortunately they didn't have any unique rewards. A simple addition to a meta such as "complete all the achievements below without any raid member wearing a piece of gear above iLvl xxx" would go a long way towards keeping content challenging for new -comers to the progression game, even if later tiers have been released.

Honors Code said...

What I find interesting is that the debate have no issue with removing pvp titles each season buy over titles stay forever. Additionally, I think the equal gear rewards will alleviate the issue if overpowering content. Combine that with a tighter window to earn titles and I think you can have a solid reward system in place.

Graylo said...

Note to Everyone: This is the only time I'm going to respond to a comment like Thedrun's. All other comments will be deleted since this is not what my post or my blog is about.

@Thedrun (anon1)

I know that the blog has not been very Moonkiny as of late. That does not represent a shift in the focus of the blog (though I've never intended this to be a completely "how-to-moonkin" blog).

There is just very little moonkiny things to write about at the moment. We don't have any patch notes or good topics to discuss. The alpha is very fresh and lacks substance, and therefore is a very limited topic as well. If anyone has a suggestion please feel free to send them in.

That said, my general thoughts on raiding and the game as a whole have always been a big part of the blog. If I think Blizzard does something well, I might comment on it. If I think Blizzard is screwing something up, I will probably comment on it a lot. Combine that with the lack of good Moonkin topics and you get what you've seen for the past few weeks.

No one is obligated to anything in this relationship. I am not obligated to write about anything in particular and you guys are not obligated to read anything I write (though I hope you won't comment if you don't read it). If my general thoughts post don't interest you feel free to skip them.

Mushu said...

You are correct in your general theme and I agree with it. The ZG bear mount mostly shows a certain accomplishment, although in the last months of availability people would pay guilds for mount runs which cheapens the accomplishment.

In a nutshell, it appears you are saying that you want a visible mark of significant game achievements. I get that and fully agree. Playing the game should bring a certain amount of epeen because, let's face it, not everyone has the same skill as someone else and "strutting your stuff" is actually fun!

The people who argue against this are the same people that say we shouldn't keep score in kid sports and "there are no losers; everyone is a winner" with a beautific smile on their face.

Blizz wants everyone to be in the happy place. They want everyone to see every boss in the game. They want everyone to have the same rewards (thus the 10-man vs 25-man raid changes) and they want everyone to progress at THEIR (Blizz's) pace.

This is why we won't be seeing new titles that are limited in accessibility, nor special gear or other stuff, except in a very limited quantity...because: "it's not fair that I'm in a crappy 10-man raiding guild and will never see hard mode bosses so I should be allowed to grind badges for that epic mount".

Just because you pay to play the game does not mean that you are ENTITLED to experience every aspect of the game! Get that through your heads folks. Blizz is under no obligation to provide anything more than a fun MMO environment for you to play in. And frankly, if you can't get that achievement/title/mount then you don't deserve it.

Tsuki said...

It's been a while since WoW became this "everybody wins" game. Nothing is rare, nothing is unique, nothing can set you apart of the other 11 million players. You win today just to realize it means very little.

It won't get any better.

Bell said...

This is what is slowly turning me off from Cataclysm. To be honest, I am not very good at video games in general. It takes me a long time to develop the skills to play, but when I get it I keep working at it. Now I'm in a top Alliance guild, pushing for server and faction firsts and then...

Wow, no more high score? Every Tom, Dick and Larry can do what I do while lolfacesmashing their keyboard? That poorly itemized Druid who spams Nourish is a Kingslayer? Really?

I'm rapidly running out of reasons to care about WoW. What is the point of trying to be good at a game where it doesn't matter if you're good, because being bad brings the same rewards?

Hana said...

I agree that titles should be removed past a certain point. I have my Nightfall title from a while back when my guild was only the second Horde on the server to get it, but now everyone has it so it doesn't feel like an accomplishment anymore.

I have Kingslayer now, which is still shiny on my server, but given another round or two of ICC zone buffing it won't be anymore.

I really liked what happened with the ZA bear mount, even though I never got it. And I'm really surprised the Ulduar mounts haven't been removed yet. Hopefully those and the Frostwyrms from ICC will be pulled before Cataclysm at least, because if they stay that will remove any prestige of having gotten them.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps some of the feeling that rewards are common place is due to the fact we are toward the end of an expansion cycle. Leading edge guilds could get rewards early while those who brute force them by being over geared get them significantly later. Should you be able to get a reward and rest on your laurels, or should you constantly have to battle to stay on top?

Goad said...

It definitely seems like Blizzard spending less time on designing higher level rewards (and more on microtransactions >.<).

This could be due to the great majority of design resources being spent on getting Cataclysm out asap. Though it can't take too much effort to remove the T7 and T8 Metas.

I am still bewildered that our gaming overlords didn't think to include a special title for Heroic LK 25. I'm not really interested in Arthas' Pegacorn (Unisys?) but Zombie Lord Goad has a nice ring to it!

Anonymous said...

there are unique titles for defeating heroic LK....

Bane of the Fallen King - 10man heroic

The Light of Dawn - 25man heroic

Kill the Tom said...

Hey Graylo, nice article. I agree with your main point. A question about this comment though, "the Black Proto-drakes show that you beat the T7 content in level appropriate gear..."

Say they gave everyone a black proto tomorrow. Why would that diminish the significance of your accomplishment? You still did a damn hard set of achievements with level appropriate gear, right?

Thanks again.

Kyanr said...

It makes me sad that people are giving you flak for being right.

I like how you said that gear isn't a reward. This is especially going to be true with the ten and 25 man changes when gear becomes more equal. Hopefully they do introduce some things that are actually rewards, like mounts and other non raid use items.

Anonymous said...

I don't get why so many people feel the need to show everyone who plays the game what they accomplished. Remember the old times? Back then when all the games were played offline and all gratification you got (if any at all) was a fancy outro and perhaps a place in some highscore no one else will ever see?
I think there should be something else motivating you than rubbing it in other people faces how you accomplished something they didn't.

Ettin said...


I think you're a good blogger and I've liked all your posts so far. What gets me is suggesting that you're going to start deleting criticism.

You're free to decide what to write about and people are free to skip them if they like, but they should also be free to read it and comment, if that's their wish.

It's fine to disagree with the others calling you elitist - though I'm not sure if you disagree with the word itself being applied to you or the negative connotations associated with the word these days - and to mention that in your posts (though they are starting to get a little patronising), but to address them directly and then provide them with a Hobson's choice ("skip this post or I'll delete yours") is a terrible attitude to take on a blog.

It seems possible that you just weren't as clear as you could have been when you said that and you didn't mean that you're going to delete comments if they criticise you, and you seem like a decent guy. I hope that isn't the case!

Ettin said...

That what I read your post as wasn't the case, I mean. Not that I hope you being a decent guy isn't the case.


Nauzet said...

Its very simple:

Inmortal title in Naxx times: I have a raid of skilled m...f... who beat Naxx without dying.

Inmortal title NOW: I was conected through WOTLK.

Celery said...

I have never been in the top tier of raiders. In vanilla I got through most of MC--we never downed Domo or Rag, we worked on ZG but never downed Hakkar, and I remember quite spectacularly wiping to trash in Ony when it respawned while we waited for some special child to stop playing in the lava. In BC I helped to clear all but Illidan before the major nerf, but after attunements were lifted. Now in ICC, my guild is working hard to get LK down, my 10man group has 9/12 hardmodes down. I don't consider myself a super hardcore raider. All of that being said...

I spent about an hour last night talking to a friend about the "good ol' days" of Vanilla when an achievement (ranks in pvp, tiers of gear, downing of bosses, etc) MEANT something. Sure, not EVERYBODY on the server was rank 14. But when you saw someone that was, you knew damn well they'd put a lot of time and effort into it. When you saw someone in full tier 2, it was pretty amazing. To this day I say I fell for my bf's tier 2--nemesis was gorgeous.

So if it makes me an elitist brat, fine. I don't think everybody and their brother should have the biggest and best things in this game. If everybody drove a porsche, a ferarri, etc, they wouldn't be as cool as they are. I will likely never own one of those cars myself and I'm okay with that. I can admire it from afar and appreciate it. Someone either worked really hard for it or was born into it--the same way people either bust their butts for progression or are carried by guildies.

The fact that everybody seems to feel entitled to everything just because they pay their $14.99 a month seems ridiculous to me. The fact that our raiders can go reroll an alt, level it to 80 and get it raid-ready in 2 weeks is utterly crazy.

I would rather have rewards that I REALLY want that are difficult to get that maybe I will never have but that at least MEAN something, than to be surrounded by the gimme gimme gimme nonsense.

And all the people posting and bashing that you are elitist, that your blog isn't writing about what they want to hear, etc... I have a feeling they just don't want to work for it. If they are a casual raider that "plays this game to enjoy playing with friends," etc... then they don't need the big fancy schmancy sports car. They will do just fine in their buick, thanks.

a2nxtcrav3r said...

Ever Since the Vanilla/BC days wow really had gone downhill, and I suppose I just outgrew it. Everything is tailored towards the casuals, Nothing is really hard earned and its created a dividing line between Elitist and the noobs. when say 40 man raiding or 25 man raiding was...simply RAIDING.

now theres a "hard mode" and a Tier gear from emblems crap. The game was a lot better when it was harder and took longer to achieve things. and you had to go through a Ladder of sorts to get to Sunwell Plateau. after elementary school theres middle school, after that its highschool, after that college and so on...

karazhan people COULD NOT jump into sunwell but nowadays fresh 80's can do heroics/dailies/weekly/ not have to do all the content before it and already jump into ICC thats not supposed to be okay.

Go Demons Souls how you rock my world <3

Graylo said...


The problem isn't that some guilds get the reward first and others get them later. The problem is that the rewards are received on a sliding scale.

I'll use ICC as an example. Some people get the Meta Mount with no buff from Thrall or Wrynn. Many are now getting it now with a 15% buff. I'm sure a ton of people will get it later with a 30% buff.

If they could draw a line in the sand and say you have to be this good to get this mount then timing wouldn't matter that much. However, they are now letting the mounts be available way past the reasonable life of the content.

@Kill the Tom

Let me ask you this. Lets say you win employee of the month and get $1,000 bonus as a result, then a week later they give everyone else a $1,000 as well? What if your in a basketball league and you win MVP, and then the next week they desided to name everyone else MVP and give them a trophey as well?

No, it doesn't diminish the significance of the accomplishment, but it does diminish the percieved value of that accomplishment. If I work my but off to get more money at work, but everyone eventually gets paid the same amount what is my motivation to work harder?


Comments that disagree wtih my post will be kept as long as they are civil. Posts that are insulting or off topic will be deleted. If my blog is not Moonkiny enough for someone they can tell send me an email or they can stop reading. This is not my job, and I don't write this just to teach everyone how to play a moonkin. I write this blog to express my thoughts. Disagree with them if you like, but don't tell me I should be posting about something else in the comments of a post. That is best done in an email.

Cathy said...

This game is soo huge and the details within the game are so many and varied, I'm not surprised things go strange or messed up at times.

I do think you are right that gear is not necessarily a reward because when you are rolling against 3 other people who all fought the same hard fight and you lose the roll, your so called reward is out the window. Now it is just gambling for gear.

There will never be the perfect system and Blizzard seems to have tried many avenues for rewards. I love the idea of mounts or special pets but titles mean nothing to me; whereas I know others love the titles.

OH and I love the varied topics here...keeps it interesting:)

Capn Skillet said...

The bottom line is that this is a computer game. The reward is fun in exchange for money. Those who consider WoW a job are really not using the product as intended. If someone is not having fun playing the game, and thus not feeling rewarded, then he or she should cancel their account and play a different game.

Blizzard has made a very smart decision in the past year in changing the way WoW works to make the casual player feel more epic. This keeps the larger player base playing longer, and most of the hardcores stick around to do hard modes and get the highest item level gear despite their complaints.

Until hardcores cancel accounts by the masses, Blizzard will continue to cater more toward the larger casual player base, while giving hardcores just enough reason to stick around.

Sean Sullivan said...

I think you can expect a reply from Gevlon soon about rewards and socials. He seems to know a whole lot about that :)

I do think that rare mounts (though not the 310% speed buff) are some of the best rewards, since they're easy to show off and are highly visible. To that extent, they should have a cut-off period for achievement mounts so that they do remain rare.

I know that means I would likely never have a shot at the mounts (since I almost never raid), but that's the whole point -- the reward has to be denied to a lot of people for it to feel awesome and distinct.

Stuff like the celestial steed (made with the tears of noobs) is more of a community thing than anything else. Since everyone has one, everyone else can feel cool that they're just like the awesome raiders with their awesome titles and achievements because they have the same mount. But you whip out your rare proto-drake or head of Mimiron and make it clear that they're not like you at all.

billy said...

That's why I like gear limited achievements. It negates the 'cheesing' of the achievement allowing the original bearers to hold onto some of the feeling they had when doing it was hard.

It's the reason I wear Herald of the Titans over Kingslayer or any of the more recent titles. Well, in all honesty it's because I like the sound of it.. but I like that it is 'uncheesable'.

Anonymous said...

Just remember that line in the movie The Incredibles:

"Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super, no one will be."


Chizz said...

Long time reader, first time posting. Great blog.
Decided to stab at this cause i talk about it a lot with guildies.

Anyhow I agree to some extent and then disagree. I agree in better rewards (via titles or mounts or whatever) for better players but i agree with the way Blizz has it.
From the sound of things no one seems to mind the rewards...they just mind the fact that they wont have the spotlight on them for long. I think its funny that this is with the thought of progression/elitism in mind. If folks want others to know they are good and want to show it, go out and get the newest reward. The idea is to progress right? Stay up with the Jones's or be better than them?
All I know is if you want me to know you are a good player and worked hard for something that you did a year ago, thats cool...I'll see your title, check your achvs, and see you got it a year ago and be impressed. Blizz did a good job adding dates on achvs. But if im looking at this great achv you got a year ago and you are currently in front of me wearing crap gear or on a run doing 5k dps I could care less that you were a good player a year ago lol.
I'm not a big fan of "Remember that time..." and like the idea of "What have you done for me lately".

Kill the Tom said...

Hey Graylo,

Thanks for the response. It's appreciated. My replay is not a disagreement. More a discussion topic.

Wrt your quote: "...but it does diminish the perceived value of that accomplishment."

Perceived by whom? Centainly not by you, since you know exactly what it took to achieve it. So are you concerned that others perceive your achievements as less then they should? If so then why you need others to perceive your accomplishments as you do?

I realize I'm being obtuse. I understand where you're coming from. There is little motivation to work harder or win a competition if everyone has the same outcome. On the flip side I think the need for recognition eventually boils down to epeen. It's why people brag about position on DPS meters and equip items just to ramp up their gear score.

It's a want vs need issue. Everyone wants recognition. But you get more enjoyment from a game if you don't need recognition, imo. Give everyone a black-proto and you're no longer getting what you want, but you still have what you need.

Thanks again.

Aurorafina said...

Honestly I have been reading this blog forever. In fact, it is an autostarted tab that I have running every time I fire up my browser.

I agree that there is a serious over homogenization of WoW. The things that made classes unique are now shared with 2-4 other classes or specs, making utility for any class less meaningful. 310 mounts were a similar aspect. I worked my feathered fanny off to get my plagued proto in time. I worked hard to get my rusted drake before ToC. Hell, it took some doing to get the violet drake.

I remember vanilla when epic was something of a point of awe. Yes the gear was terribly itemized for the most part, but you were proven to have genuinely accomplished something. Naxx retuned was a joke at best to someone who raided it as a level 60. Many raid achievements were received because you executed the fight properly rather than did something stupid along the way.

Honestly I was of two minds during Burning Crusade regarding badge gear. Before 2.3 the gear was so awful for a moonkin that the only hope you had was that you could farm enough heroics to buy the loot at release. No guild on a council distribution could see good reason to hand loot to a moonkin back then. However, the t6 equivalent loot from farming Kara was disturbing. SSC was pure hell at tier appropriate. BT was not a walk in the park when it first opened. Deathwhisper was the first boss that made me feel like I was back to doing something worthwhile in hard modes. It was almost a return to the 11 weeks that I grinded away in order to down M'uru the first time. (BTW I was a lil ruffled at the 3.0 nerf on him, it felt like a slap in the face after working so hard).

Raiding isn't just about what spell rotation we need. We are part of a team. We work with 9-24 of our fellow raid members to achieve amazing things. I can't claim to be the best, but I agree wholeheartedly with Graylo on this.

Ettin said...


Okay, yeah, that is fair enough. Carry on. <3

James said...

"Bell said...
This is what is slowly turning me off from Cataclysm. It takes me a long time to develop the skills to play, but when I get it I keep working at it. Now I'm in a top Alliance guild, pushing for server and faction firsts and then...

Wow, no more high score? Every Tom, Dick and Larry can do what I do while lolfacesmashing their keyboard? That poorly itemized Druid who spams Nourish is a Kingslayer? Really?

I'm rapidly running out of reasons to care about WoW. What is the point of trying to be good at a game where it doesn't matter if you're good, because being bad brings the same rewards?"

This. Exactly this. They are dumbing the game down entirely way too much and will easily alienate a rather large chunk of their current subscribers if they continue to go down this road of making everything that much more simple for the casual raider to be as good as the hardcore raider.

I strive to be the best in everything and if I can just face roll this with little effort on my part I will quickly lose interest. This can be especially well seen with the current raid wide buff in ICC, the bigger it gets the more I care less as it is already becomign perfectly faceroll.

We have taken the challenge out of the game already short Lich King, I can only imagine what things are going to look like when the buff reaches it's max(30% I believe)? Tuning 1 boss of 12 to nearly require a large chunk of said buff was a horrible idea and I really do hope blizzard learns from this complete mistake.

-Solbia of Doomhammer

Griemak said...

I am strange to others in this regard. I view reward based upon what I *do* have, instead of what others *don't* have. If I have a title that someone else doesn't, it offers no additional value to that title. I earned that title and that was my reward regardless if other people can repeat it. The real reward was the fun and enjoyment of the journey; a sentiment I partake in video games, not real life where the journey matters not: pay me my money. While the gated approach to the raids provides an equalization to everything earned, it changes not my reward from my personal contribution. I guess I just don't care what anyone else thinks of what I have or have not done, thus my "reward" is biased towards personal enjoyment instead of showmanship, bragging rites, or other innocent and devilish public display of achievement.

Then again, I am also simplistic. A box marked 'frah jee lee' with a major reward inside is exciting to me, even if it turns out to be a naked leg lamp. I enjoy raiding much like a Stableford Golf tourney, where the fix is the last performance I had on the fight and the "reward" is doing better than last time. The more improvement, the more enjoyment. I don't care who else does what as long as the bosses drop and I keep doing better.

Anachan said...

I understand and empathize with wanting rewards to mean something. I had my first jolt of Blizzard reality when I ground my way to Commander for the cat, felt very proud of myself, and then, only a matter of two weeks later or so, saw them all over the server, purchasable by battleground marks. Still, I knew my own accomplishment.

My husband is not as "hard-core" a player as I am (although I wouldn't consider myself "hard-core.") His chief complaint in BC was always that, once he got behind me in progression, he could never raid with me, because he could never hope to catch up at all. The gear deficit was largely insurmountable. So he was delighted to see the changes in Wrath allowing those who didn't have as much time as others to be able to gear up sufficiently to experience newer content.

It's hard to know what the right compromise should be. In the mean time, once Kingslayer becomes too common on my server, I will switch back to wearing Herald of the Titans, which nobody can disparage. :)

Anonymous said...


Even tho the those rewards become lesser in value to you, always know you still got a date tagged to it.

But overall your right, WoW is becomming way to much of a mainstream game, every idiot that has cash can play it, and raid in the newest instance. Like me ^^.