Monday, October 13, 2008

Moonkin Stats at Level 80

With the coming expantion, how our DPS is affected by the different stats will change. The value of each stat will decrease as we level to 80 and we will need more Hit and Crit rating to increase our Hit chance and Crit change by 1%. There have also been some significant changes to talents like Lunar Guidence and Imp Moonkin Form that make some stats less important and others more attractive.

In this post I will take a look at each stat and show how they relate to each other. I will point out when to focus on each stat, and confront the common myth that Crit is better the Haste.

1. I used this talent build. Build: Link

2. Stats - Spell Power = 1800, Crit = 35%, Haste = 9.17%, Hit = 95%, and your moonkin is level 80.

3. I will be looking the stats using Starfire since this will be our primary raid spell. However, I will comment on how these stats affect the other spells in very general terms.

4. Using the stats above the average Starfire will have the following DPS:

((((1120 + (1800 * 1.2))*1.19)*1.35)*0.95) / (((3-(0.5*0.35))/1.0917) = 1,934.4746
Spell Power:
This stat, formally known as spell damage, is our bread and butter. It is the stat that all other stats are compared to because it is always good. Lets look at some math.

Starfire has a spell power coefficent of 1.2 with Wrath of Cenarius. On top of that each point is buffed at 19% due to various talents. Numerically it looks like this.

Hit Capped DPS per Point = (((1.2 * 1.19) * 1.35)*0.95) / ((3 - (0.5 * 0.35)) / (1.0917)) = 0.7077 DPS
Hit Rating:
If you raided in the Burning Cruisade then you know the importance of Hit rating, in WotLK Hit is still very important. However, there are a couple of changes you should know. First, you will now need 26.23 Hit Rating to improve your chance to hit by 1%. More importantly we will now be able to increase our hit chance to 100%. So we will now need to increase our hit chance by 17%. Balance of Power and Misery (shadow priest talent) will increase our hit chance by 7%. The other 10% will need to be made up by hit rating. Therefore, the soft hit cap in WotLK is 263.

Lets look at the value of hit for the standard stats I listed in the assumptions. One point of Hit will increase your chance to hit by 1/2623 = 0.03812%.

DPS +1 Hit = ((((1120 + (1800 * 1.2))*1.19)*1.35)*0.9503812) / (((3-(0.5*0.35))/1.0917) = 1,935.2509
As you can see from this information, an additional point of Hit rating will increase the hypothetical Moonkin's DPS by 0.7763. If you compare this to the DPS change from an additional point of Spell Power, you can see that 1 point of Hit rating is worth 1.09687 Spell Power.

The value of Hit rating does change depending on what your starting level of hit rating, but this isn't something that should be a big concern. Hit rating starts to equal Spell Power in value at just 1,428 Spell Power, and Hit rating will always be more valuable then Spell Power when you reach 1,689 Spell Power. Both levels should be fairly easy to reach in early raiding, so reaching the hit cap should be your first priority as long as your not giving up large amounts of Spell Power to do so.

Crit Rating:
The amount of Crit rating needed increase your Crit chance by 1% is 45.90 at level 80. Another important thing to remember is that our Crit chance in WotLK will be much greater in general. From talents and raid buffs alone we will be able to reach 22% crit chance, and it is not unreasonable to assume that our crit chance will be as high as 35% in early raiding. This is why my example assumes such a high level of Crit.

In WotLK an additional point of Crit rating will increase your crit chance by 1 / 4590 = 0.02179%. So an addtional point of Crit will increase your DPS as follows.

DPS + 1 Crit = ((((1120 + (1800 * 1.2))*1.19)*1.3502179)*0.95) /
(((3-(0.5*0.3502179))/1.0917) = 1,934.8615

This is a DPS increase of 0.3869. When compared to the DPS value of one point of Spell Power you can see that for the hypothetical Moonkin 1 point of Crit rating is worth about 0.5466 Spell Power.

Haste Rating:
The amount of Haste rating needed increase your Haste chance by 1% is 32.79 at level 80. The other change you will find in WotLK is that Moonkin will start with 6% crit due to talents, and can go even higher due to raid buffs.

In WotLK an additional point of haste rating will increase your haste by 1 / 3,279 = 0.03050%. So an addtional point of Haste will increase your DPS as follows.

((((1120 + (1800 * 1.2))*1.19)*1.35)*0.95) / (((3-(0.5*0.35))/1.092005) = 1,935.0151
This is a DPS increase of 0.5405. When compared to the DPS value of one point of Spell Power you can see that for the hypothetical Moonkin 1 point of Haste rating is worth about 0.7636 Spell Power.

When looking at Haste in the BC I talked a lot about the break-even point where 1 point of Haste increase DPS just as much as one point of Spell Power. The break-even point in WotLK is very high even in relative terms. In BC the break-even point could easily been reached Kara gear, and a couple of peices from ZA and othe T4 instances. In WotLK the break-even point is 2,543 Spell Power.

Crit vs Haste:
I want to highlight the relationship between Crit rating and Haste rating. After looking at some of the gear that will be available in WotLK, it is clear that moonkin will have to choose between Crit haste quite a bit. My analysis above shows that Haste is better in terms of DPS. I have run the numbers for several levels of crit and haste and feel very confident in saying that Haste will always be more valueable in terms of DPS than Crit for all reasonable levels of Haste and Crit. However, this does not mean that Haste rating is better then Crit rating 100% of the time.

The real question you need to ask when choosing between Haste or Crit is regarding your Mana. Haste has no affect on a spell's DPM. Your DPS will be higher if you increase your haste, but if you have mana issues then Haste is only going to cause you to run out of mana faster. Crit on the other had has a significant impact on your DPM. Not only does it increase your damage, but mana will also be returned you crit.

So, the basic rule of thumb is If you have mana issues you should focus more on Crit. If mana is not a problem then Haste will give you a larger increase to DPS.

1. The basic DPS stat equation has changed slightly. There was some ambiguity as to where Haste fell, but I think that answer is now clear for early raiding. The new stat equation is Hit > Power > Haste > Crit.

2. Crit rating and Haste rating appear to be significantly less valuable in Wrath of the Lich King. Some on the forums have argued that this isn't true and that Crit and haste were not worth very much in early BC raiding either. I don't agree.

I think Crit rating and Haste rating appear significantly less valuable due to the higher starting values of Crit chance and Haste in WotLK.

However, this does not mean that we should avoid Crit Rating or Haste Rating. Both stats are very nice and can significantly increase DPS, but when picking up these stats you should try and maintain your current level of spell power since it has a greater impact on DPS,

3. There are other stats you will need when raiding like Stamina, Intelligence, Spirit, and Mp5. All of these stats are important to performance but none of them have a significant impact on DPS. For the most part you will get as much of these stats as you need, just by stacking the normal DPS stats, and no extra effort is needed.


LXj said...

Thanks for your math! I need just one clarification: is the item level cost of spell power, crit rating, hit rating and haste rating equal? How is it compared to +int, +spi and +mp5?

Erdluf said...

A couple of points on spellpower. Its itemization cost is 6/7 (according to ) and I haven't heard of a change there.

Also, you will have at least MF (and probably IS) DoTs going in the background. Your MF DoTs get some help from Spellpower

(roughly 13%(coef)*1.75(glyph)*1.19(E&M)/3(seconds) = about 9%/second, which should be added to your SF DPS, since it is "free."

Haste/Crit/Hit don't help the MF dot (except to the extent that faster, more reliable SF helps keep the DoT ticking).

IS also scales (mostly) just with spellpower, and it is in the 8% to 10% (glyphed) / second range.

Cdin said...

@ Ixj

You can generally see the itemization costs of stats by looking at gems, and judging from the gem's Itemization costs have not changed. Green quality gem's in WotLK will grant 14 Spell Power but only 12 Crit. Crit, Haste, and Hit still seem to be Itemized the same.

Regarding Int, Spirit, and Mp5, I wouldn't really worry about them. You will get plenty of Int and Spirit just by looking for upgrades to the DPS stats. Mp5 is a little different. I would generally avoid it unless you skip intensity and need some mana regen. However, if you need mana regen then your probaby not skipping intentsity.


Very good points. Crit and Haste have very little impact on Moonfire and Insect Swarm. So this does boost the value of Spell Power.

However, we generally won't be choosing between Spell power and Crit. Most of the items I'm seeing in the beta have standard amounts of Spell power, and then accent that with another DPS stat. So the choice is between Haste, Crit, or Hit. Spell power will come just as we increase our item level.

On last thing, I published this article pretty late at night and I realize I need to go back and polish it up a little.

Thanks for reading.

Dar said...

In the Haste section, it mentions crit in several places. I think you mean haste =)

Good read.

Cdin said...


Thanks for pointing that out. It is fixed.

Belqwon said...

Have you taken into account increased NG procs from crit rating?

I know it still won't make crit>haste, but it would be interesting to see some numbers for it.

PuertoRico1 said...

Agree with the last post, in this math the value of 3 procs are not taking into consideration: more crit =more proc of eclipse, proc on mana, and nature grace. So I believe crit is 2nd best stat if not first when u have the chance to choose. And are we forgetting about lunar guidance?

Cdin said...


Sorry, I missed your comment. Yes, Nature's Grace is included in the Calculation.


Your right, Eclipse and mana on Crit to increase the value of Crit and are not included in my calculations. However, I think your over estimating their impact.

Lets look at mana on Crit first. This is a great ability but it really only has an impact on your DPS if your running out of mana. In my level 70 experience this is not the case, and from what I've heard in the Beta it isn't the case either. Also, at these entry levels of spell power, one point of spell power is more mana efficient then a point of Crit Rating. I will say this though. Crit will be come more attractive at higher levels of Spell Power, because the DPS increases will be higher and Crit will be more mana efficient.

The important thing to remember about Eclipse is that Crit is not the main thing that determines when it procs. The 40 second cooldown is the primary thing that determines when Eclipse procs. This math is really ruff but lets take a look. Assuming that 33.33% crit rate and a 2.5 second average cast your going to get a buff ever 47.5 seconds. In a 10 minute fight that means 12.6 Wrath buffs if you cast constantly. Increasing your crit rate to 50% (a huge jump) increases your average number of wrath buffs to only 13.33. The impact just isn't that big.

I am little confused as to what you mean by "I believe crit is 2nd best stat if not first." If your saying crit is better then Hit and/or spell power then I think you’re mistaken given the numbers in my analysis. If your saying you personally rank crit higher then haste, then I can accept that because Crit has extra benefits, which you mentioned, and haste as a clear mana issue.

One last thing, Lunar Guidance is not included in the analysis because it affects Intelligence, and is not a good DPS stat.

PuertoRico1 said...

Thank u got me 99.99% convinced. :)but i still like my procs so I can focus more on dps talents and gear and not on mana or haste.

PuertoRico1 said...

any stats for pvp or pve on shadow priest?

Cdin said...


I am a PvP noob, so don't accept anything I say on the subject as gospel.

Obviously Stam, Resiliance and Spell Power are all very important. Hit is not very important because most of what you need will be provided by Balance of Power. Having a little bit of extra might not be horrible idea since there are several racials and talents that make targets harder to hit, but you won't need near as much as you do in PvE.

Regarding Crit, Haste and Int, I recently posted an interview with FSU, a very experianced PvP moonkin. In that interview he said that Crit is probably the most important stat, but Int might be catching up to it in terms of PvP. He also said haste isn't a bad stat but he doesn't like it because it makes it harder to time starfires after cyclone.

Cdin said...


One last thing. I haven't run any numbers for Spriest or any of the other classes. However, I would suggest that you head over to There are a lot of smart people over there and they can probably provide you with the answers to your questions.

Gulgoth said...

Lunar Guidance doesnt affect Intellect at all, it increases your spell damage a % of your intellect, therefore making it a damage stat as it adds crit and spell power. I also think you are forgetting the usefulness of spirit as 15% of your spirit is gained as spell power with the Improved Moonkin Form talent.

All moonkins should take the intellect and spirit values of their items into value as the roughly convert into spell power and crit rating.

Cdin said...


First of all, your right. I miss typed. LG does not affect Int, but my point still holds true because it is based off of Int.

This article was written to look at DPS stats. While Int, Spirit, Mp5 and Stam can and do affect Moonkin DPS to some degree they are not DPS stats and shouldn't be a huge consideration when choosing gear. The DPS impact of these stats is like adding a match to a bonfire.

A vast majority of our gear choices will have both Int and Stam on them, and Spirit to a lesser degree. When we upgrade our spell power we will generally be upgrading our base stats also.

The only time you my have an impact is when your comparing an item without base stats to one that does have them. An example would be comparing the Belt of Blasting to another belt. However, lets face it. If your having to look at Int and Spirit to determine which item is better then they are very close and would do about the same for your DPS.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't you say that Imp FF is better than celestial focus if Hit is greater than haste?

Valantine said...

Hi, I am a little late for this post i think but i just wanted some clarification on the Stat values u posted, i might seem a little noobish is asking but are those Values for Pre-Raid Gear and do they take Buffs into account?
Also it seems from Info at the Moonkin Repository that the MF/IS/W*n > SF is the way to go if your specced for eclipse - does this effect the stats in anyway?

Sorry if i missed something obvious and im not good with math so layman answers are probably best :P

Love Blog and the work put into it, its Awesome stuff. Thank you.

Cdin said...


I built those his post using these stats: Spell Power = 1800, Crit = 35%, Haste = 9.17%, Hit = 95%.

It was written before the final version of WotLK and those values are a little screwy now. For instants, I can get 11% haste with out any haste from Gear.

I do plan on updating the information but to be quick about it the Crit information is about right but may be a little higher. The Haste information is probably a little lower since we can get more haste from buffs, and it is so plentiful on gear. The hit information is just about right.

Regarding Wrath vs SF. I still thing SF rotations are the best way to go. Wrath does have a DPS advantage but I think SF still has a bigger mana advantage, but I haven't run the numbers recently.

Anyway, If you do use more of a wrath rotation then Crit would be less value and haste would decrease a little also. This is due to the global cooldown.

J said...

Regarding the question about Improved Faerie fire:

the +3% hit does not stack with shadow priest misery -- so if you have a shadow priest you don't need the talent...

Now no one seems to be sure whether the 3% crit increase is from YOUR faerie fire, or ANY faerie fire... if you had a feral tank that used faerie fire anyway I would grab the talent (if it worked with ANY faerie fire).

otherwise mana regen seems to be a better use of those points for me in raids at 80lv..

I am someone who has stacked a lot of haste -- it's around 545 when I go in raids... with the speed at which my wrath's cast (1.21 seconds or so?). I have found Moonglow (3% mana discount) to be the biggest mp5 savings with my gear.

I took 1 point in dreamstate because that first point gives you 4%, and 2 points in intensity (intensity is usually better for people, but I only have 2 pieces of gear with spirit points and no discipline priests for the +80spirit in our 10mans).

You can see my build here if you like:
-- I'm missing around 1% of the time with our buffs/draeni around.. and have the key to the eye of eternity and will get a slightly better hit rating necklace there.. overall I'm happy with this setup.

Mcbear said...

Hi, very good post, but i have to make a point to you all which might of changed, but so far i have heard nothing about the change.

Say you have a haste rating, which pulls your wrath time down to a 1 second cast time, you can go no lower, as the GCD time cant be lower than 1 second (as i believe)((or 0.8s or something)) so any higher than that amount of haste rating when combined with talent haste bonuses will give an easily reachable haste cap, in which case i believe having a very high crit rating will prove the better stat.

The reason behind this is that with a 0.9s cast time on wrath with NG you are at exactly where you would be with haste rating, yet you are gaining mana back whilst causing a very respectable amount of dps.

I do however thing that to get to this amount of crit rating unless we get suprised with some very nice items in later raiding you would have to sacrifice some hit rating which would of course lower your DPS. So in my opinion a hit cap with a high crit rating will make more viable and longer lasting dps than hit rating and haste.

However blizzard may have lowered the TBC haste - GCD rating.

Thanks for having a read of this and get back to me if you can.

Pique said...

I like your spec and am probably gonna respec to your spec for the most part. But i always seem to go oom very fast. I was wondering why you didn't get typhoon. I am thinking about taking points from Improved MOTW and Master Shapeshifter to max out dreamstate and get typhoon. Will dreamstate in combination with intensity ,in your opinion, help with my mana regen issues?

Brandon said...


I'm just not so sure about the "Balance of Power" talent.
When I upgrade talents in the tree, I see direct results in the numbers for my character when I setup my tree. However, I forgot to be watching my hit numbers, but I was about in the 120's. I am still in the 120's after the "Balance of Power" upgrade. So... Say I had 120. If the upgrade is 2% of that number, then 2.2 hit is all that this talent added. Even at 360 it would only be an upgrade of 6.6 points of hit. How is this a point well spent? I'd rather spend in Nature's Grace, or Brambles, or anything rather than this weak upgrade. I know, it was said that 2% is added to your total hit cap, but that doesn't make sense. If all other talents calculate on percentages of what you already have on your gear, then even if you had 500 hit you would only get 10 hit added as a bonus for that talent and I do not see how that is going to make near the difference that other stats would.

Any ideas?

P.S. - I will respec this evening once again, just to make sure. I was going to go for the Master Shapeshifter rather than the furor Intellect buff.

Anonymous said...

You there! Smart moonkin!

If I have a constant 2850 spell power in a raid, with occasional dying curse procs... prob an average of 3000 spell power..... how do these stat weightings change? oh sigh... please help. Wrath raiding has taken spell power to whole new places.

warrior guide said...

Just want to say I love your detailed number crunching! I'm a absolute nerd when it comes to numbers, too, and love to calculate it down to the percentages to max my chars.

Plz keep on posting!!