Thursday, August 20, 2009

Faction Champions: A Moonkin's View

I've said this before, my guild doesn't raid 25mans on Tuesdays. We did have a 10man group that when and did Faction Champions on Tuesday, but I was not a part of that group. So, after reading some of the comments from guildies and seeing the massive amount QQ on the official forums I thought this might be a fun challenge for a change. The first two bosses we 1 shotted on our very first attempts and even picked up some achievements.

I guess you could say Faction Champions was harder. Exactly twice as hard if you use our experience. We two shotted it instead of just one. I don't say this to stroke my epeen or to say "look how awesome I am." My point is that with the right approach this fight isn't that hard. Here are my observations.

It's NOT a PvP fight:

Most of the QQers seemed to misunderstand what this fight is about. They make comments like "if I wanted to PvP I would go to arena" and "not all of my guild has PvP specs."

I've got news for these posters. There may be similarities like the Diminishing returns on CC, but this is NOT a PvP fight. Here are the differences:

  • In PvP the two sides have even numbers of 5v5 or 15v15. In Faction Champions25 its 25vs10. Three of them are going to be healers so you only have 7 running around DPSing people maybe a little bit more if you include pets.

  • Players do not control the mobs. The mobs may not behave the same way that traditional bosses do, but they don't behave like players either. Players would focus target and kill as single member of the opposition first. These mobs don't focus much if at all. I never had more then one mob on me, and if I could get away from him long enough he would switch targets .
Moonkin Tips:

This fight is all about Individual Responsibility and Surviving. Everything that these mobs do can be countered, so as long as your raid is prepared you shouldn't have a problem getting around any of the issues that they present. Here are my tips:

  • Dispels: If you see your Decursive or what ever mod you use light up like a Christmas tree then start dispelling. Most of your dispellers are healers, and they are pretty busy preventing people from dying. So as a moonkin you can dispel curses and poisons to prevent a lot of incoming damage. You obviously sacrifice some of your own damage to do so, but it is more then a fair trade.

  • Crowd Control: If your like me you haven't touched your Nature's Grasp or Cyclone spells in a very long time. The only time I use Entangling Roots or Hibernate is on specific mobs and I have macros for those situations. So it may seem a little strange for these spells to be come so important. Moonkin don't have a lot of escape spells like Blink or Iceblock so the key to our survival is CC. These are the spells we have available.

    • Nature's Grasp - This is probably the best CC we have for this fight. It's purely reactionary and you don't have to target a mob to get it off. Try to keep this buff up as much as possible.

    • Entangling Roots - This is only good on melee targets, but it is a very short cast that you can get off quickly if your Nature's Grasp is down.

    • Cyclone - It only CCs the mob for 6 seconds, but that is a lot of time to run away if you need to. It also works well on Casters to interrupt casts if your being focused on by a Caster DPS mob.

    • Hibernate - This spell wasn't that useful. We did have the hunter up with a pet, but my CC was broken pretty quickly. Since there is only one mob that you can CC with it and it wasn't affective, I wouldn't worry about having Hibernate on your bar.

    • Typhoon - I don't have the spell and I wouldn't pick it up just for this fight. To be honest I don't know how I feel about Typoon for this fight. The knock back is a double edge sword. It can save people's lives, but it can also slow DPS on the target. You may want to talk to your raid leaders before you use it to much.

  • (Side Note: Try to have a little space between you and your fellow raid members. This will make it easier for you to target a mob that is beating on you.)

  • Heal Yourself: This is a very chaotic fight. Don't assume that the healers have you covered especially in the beginning. I have all of my healing spells macroed to target me and cast a heal. It's very easy to pop a couple of Lifeblooms on myself while I'm running away from a mob I just CCed.

    Of course, it also goes without saying that you should use Barkskin, Healthstones, and healing pots if you can.

I know how easy it is to get lost in DPSing a target, but this is one of those fights where it is paramount to pay attention to your surroundings. Make sure all your CCs are close at hand and don't be afraid to use them, but be sure not to spam them either. As long as your raid does what it can to survive, focuses on a single target, and does what it can to take the healers out of the fight, you should complete this encounter without much difficulty.


Anonymous said...

Personally i used cyclone the most. when healers scream there is 1 mob on him .. boom i cyclone and he is free for 6 seconds.. just rotate cyclone on all mobs, except the one who is getting bursted down. we downed them in1st try 10man and 2nd try 25man. yes i can say it was a bit harder than previous 2 bosses. but we will see how will they act in heroic mode ? twice more hp? twice more dmg? it should be harder! alot!

Parasha - Aszune EU

wendy said...

I did this on 10 man, and it's not an easy fight. 7 mobs vs. 10 of us (yes we got the hunter) in a not-ideal raid composition and it was a nightmare. I'm in a small guild that hasn't even been able to down Yogg yet. We're all in gear ranging from i219-i232. People were being one-shotted by the DK. We were being flattened before we could even get our first kill target down. For small guilds without a large population to choose ideal raiding composition for CC and buffing this fight is a very bad thing. We all did our best and eventually got it down, but this type of fight is incredibly frustrating, not at all fun and is not why I raid. You can say it's not a PVP fight because there is no group coordination behind the Champions, but it sure isn't a PVE raid fight.

Anonymous said...

Hi Gray,

This fight isn't hard at all. It's comparable to maybe 1-tower Flame Leviathan, in that people need to do slightly different stuff than they're used to, but it's a total complete joke once people realize "CC the bursty melee & healers, kill healers, then kill everything else" works just fine.

Kill the guy in the dress, basically.


Anonymous said...

wtf...comparable to 1 tower flame levi??? This is night an easy fight, especially on 25 man (I haven't done it on 10 man). I found this to be a very difficult fight to complete.

Ivan Moreira said...

Seens my guild fails miserably, then. We couldnt even get the druid healer down with 4 attempts. We had priest/druid/shaman healers combo. And rogue/dk/warrior/pally melees. One thing I disagree with you is that the melees do focus target. Everytime I died I had one of them stunning me, and the rest just gangbanging me and I didnt even had time to hit anything but barskin, wich was useless anyway. Same with some of our healers (saw it happenning with a priest and a shammy) and a mage said it happened to him too.

I guess we are having so many different opinions because of the composition of the champions. The melee hit really really hard and if you get so many of them, the battle becomes harder.

Nathan said...

One hard thing to comment on this fight so far is comp. Some are going to be easier or more difficult than others. That being said, I do agree that it is not insanely difficult. It does a good job at making us use tools our class has (no matter what the class) that don't usually get used in PvE. Our Priests were thrilled to get the go ahead to fear bomb whenever they felt the need to.

I'm convinced that there is some sort of agro table to this fight (Taunt does work for a few seconds after all) but I think it may revolve around CC. I made a hibernate macro for the Cat. I found that when I used it a lot (took us four attempts, still light as far as new content goes) I found I had the cat, and often the lock pet on me. When I didn't use it, I found I hardly ever had the pets on me.

Likewise, our only lock seemed to get agro a LOT. He was banishing, fearing, stunning, and throwing a lot of CC all around. He often had a mob on him, and usually seemed to be focused.

Anyway, I think it's an interesting fight. It's very dynamic and does force a raid to think and react a bit more than most. We do have a lot of unused buttons, and I enjoy getting to use them sometimes.

As a final note, I would be careful about throwing cyclone around TOO willy nilly. Remember, if two other classes already have a CC rotation set up on the mob, your cyclone may ruin it.

Cassandri said...

I think I've missed all the QQ on the forums because, frankly, I loved this fight to pieces.

It's not about wearing PVP gear or having a PVP build (although that helps if you feel more comfortable playing that spec in PVP) it's more about opening your mind and using your character in ways you don't usually in PVE encounters.

I had to tentively suggest (when dicussing how to keep the enemy resto druid under control) "can't you like cyclone it or something?" because I didn't know the name of the spell as a druid-noob but I get it done to me all the time in battlegrounds.

Was great fun to use spells that don't get much of a workout and change your mind set.

Anonymous said...

For people like me who hate pvp this fight is even worse than pvp. When fighting against players you know there is at least some kind of strategy and your opponents will likely try to focus your healers... here you have a bunch of hard hitting npc that unpredictably switch their targets at random and seemingly have no threat table at all.
We managed to down them in 3 attempts with about 8 players alive (the 25 man version) and it certainly felt like we accomplished something, but I personally didn't enjoy this fight at all.

Ryan said...

I think this is a fight where you will get alot of differing opinions, but the key to it is careful planning and execution.

My guild ran two 10mans at the same time. The group I was in downed this fight in 2 tries, our other group took many many tries and 2 hours to finish the fight.

I think the real key is to CC the healers and dps down one of the DPS bosses (with hero) right off the bat. Taking out that one boss makes it easier on the healers, which will make it easier for everyone to kill the next boss, and so on.

Oh and BTW, the Moonkin boss is annoying as hell. My cyclone has diminishing returns, but sure didnt' feel like his did.

Ryan said...

And yes I typed that right, contrary to usual PVP tactics.. KILL THE DPS FIRST (well one or two dps). But you have to stop the healers from healing too much. So sheep/hex one or two and put an interrrupt tank on the 2nd/3rd healer and then kill the rogue/hunter/enhance shaman.

Anonymous said...

Other players do not have 2 million health and 1 million mana.